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 Caring and Owning Horses
 Horse Training
 Side Passing
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horsehugger2000
Advanced Rider



USA
493 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2009 :  9:15:49 PM  Show Profile Send horsehugger2000 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Need to teach Lil to sidepass. I'm sure she already knows how, but I have no idea what she was taught. Soooooo what is the way you have taught your horses????

Wendi
Wendi's Riding Log

PaintGal
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
5300 Posts

Posted - 04/23/2009 :  9:26:04 PM  Show Profile Send PaintGal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wendi,

Start out walking along a wall or fence and pull her head into the wall and kick her rear out. If she doesn't already know how, all you'll be lucky to get is a few steps at best. Keep a little pressure on the off rein so she doesn't simply turn around & remember to work both directions.

Bud is learning and we're getting better. He's no where near ready to sidepass without the wall though.

Karen ~ Trails
&
Joe Paint Gelding
Paoli, IN


"My treasures do not sparkle or glitter, they shine in the sun and neigh in the night."



~~~~~~
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Montezrider
Clinician



USA
1284 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2009 :  07:53:09 AM  Show Profile Send Montezrider a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I do just as PG has said. The only thing I would add, is I make sure to keep the leg completely off of the horse in the direction I want him to move, I also use a dressage whip in my opposite hand to just reach back and gently encourage his hind end to move over as my leg pressure asks him to. You may have to exaggerate the movements at first, but that will pass. Be happy with just a step or two at first so they will see what you want. It is great if you have an arena to just travel around the wall doing this every so often.

A good rider has a thinking mind, fine emotions and a sensitive hand.-Tu Yu,72 BC


Edited by - Montezrider on 04/24/2009 07:56:22 AM
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ILoveJoe
Clinician



USA
2499 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2009 :  08:07:35 AM  Show Profile Send ILoveJoe a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am so glad you are asking this Wendi. We can learn together. Joe doesn't know how and this is one thing I want to teach Joe and my methods haven't been too successful. I was FACING Joe at the fence and trying to get him to continue in either direction in a sidepass. I got a few sidesteps, alot of backing up and confusion all AROUND.

Is this something you build up to, like first doing shoulder in and shoulder outs?




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PaintGal
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
5300 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2009 :  10:00:29 AM  Show Profile Send PaintGal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You want to have a forward motion before turning into the wall and something I neglected to say earlier is that it really helps to sidepass them from the ground first.

Line the horse up facing the wall then use a whip to move the hindquarters away from you and keep their head toward the wall. You'll stand slightly in front of the shoulder & walk with them as they move along the wall. Again, expect only a couple of steps and as soon as you get them, release the pressure. Eventually, you should be able to give a little more line so they can move farther away from you.

Remember this is not a natural movement for a horse and it does take practice and coordination. More than likely, they'll be much better in one direction than the other and catch on quickly. The other direction will have to be learned separately.

Karen ~ Trails
&
Joe Paint Gelding
Paoli, IN


"My treasures do not sparkle or glitter, they shine in the sun and neigh in the night."



~~~~~~
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Montezrider
Clinician



USA
1284 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2009 :  10:20:49 AM  Show Profile Send Montezrider a Private Message  Reply with Quote

A wall or fence is a real help here, as it blocks forward movement. If on the ground,( which is a really good way to start as PG said) you are closing the door on the side you stand. I usually stand at about the girth area so I can block any backward movement easier. That leaves the door open in the direction away from you. If you're astride you are blocking with your leg and whip, and leaving the direction away from you open by at first, keeping your leg completely off of them on that side. Like PG said, they do catch on quickly and then it's just a matter of repetition until they know solidly what you want.

A good rider has a thinking mind, fine emotions and a sensitive hand.-Tu Yu,72 BC

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Arenadirt
Trainer

USA
670 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2009 :  12:43:59 PM  Show Profile  Visit Arenadirt's Homepage Send Arenadirt a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You guys are so... right!

I only want to add a note about how extremely important this basic move is, whether you're looking toward dressage, trail riding, cutting, reining or anything else I know of. Having a good sidepass is foundational to a lot of other moves, including that lovely (but useless IMO) spinning turnaround that reining judges like to see.

The progression from sidepass to the spin is easy if enough patience is added to the mix. When you first start sidepassing, the horse's head will tilted away from the direction of the sidepass - he'll be leading with his shoulder. Once the horse is totally dialed on it, we VERY SLOWLY start tipping the head toward the direction of sidepass; first just a little less bend away from the direction, then eventually a fairly straight neck and head, then (and this can take hours, over weeks or months) tip the head toward the direct of the sidepass. Once the horse is doing this well, crossing both front and back legs comfortably, it's very easy to just stop the back end motion with the outside rein, give that rein back and use the direct rein (very lightly) to let his front end pivot while the inside back foot stays planted. A step or two at first, then a quarter turn, then 180 degrees and eventually a full spin. If you do every step of this progression and go back to the start if anything doesn't feel right, you'll have a nice light reining turnaround and a good foundation for gate work, rollbacks, cutting turns or whatever else you want to teach your horse - even flying lead changes.

To this day, I ritually ask my horses to half-pass (move at about a 45 degree angle, crossing front and back) during warm ups, and if they every tangle their feet up in turnarounds I go back to the progression above and they straighten out, usually in minutes.

[/end sermon] :D

Edited by - Arenadirt on 04/24/2009 12:46:03 PM
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PaintGal
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
5300 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2009 :  1:17:00 PM  Show Profile Send PaintGal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Interesting Arena!

Everything a horse learns can be incorporated into something else.... does that make sense?

Dave has a slightly different technique to teaching the spin. He uses bending into a circle to start the spin AFTER the horse learns to sidepass/cross front & hind legs. Once the horse is moving in a small circle, start pushing the shoulders with the outside leg while keeping the nose tipped in the direction you're moving. Just get a step or 2 and move out of the circle. I've been using this technique with Joe and he's beginning to "spin" (I hesitate to use the word "spin" since we don't spin far nor fast). He's not planting the back foot very well yet but I'm "feeling" the ummm... swoop? for lack of a better word.

I can see where your technique would work too! I'll give it a try and see what happens.

Karen ~ Trails
&
Joe Paint Gelding
Paoli, IN


"My treasures do not sparkle or glitter, they shine in the sun and neigh in the night."



~~~~~~
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Arenadirt
Trainer

USA
670 Posts

Posted - 04/24/2009 :  6:56:21 PM  Show Profile  Visit Arenadirt's Homepage Send Arenadirt a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PaintGal

Interesting Arena!

Everything a horse learns can be incorporated into something else.... does that make sense?

Dave has a slightly different technique to teaching the spin. He uses bending into a circle to start the spin AFTER the horse learns to sidepass/cross front & hind legs. Once the horse is moving in a small circle, start pushing the shoulders with the outside leg while keeping the nose tipped in the direction you're moving. Just get a step or 2 and move out of the circle. I've been using this technique with Joe and he's beginning to "spin" (I hesitate to use the word "spin" since we don't spin far nor fast). He's not planting the back foot very well yet but I'm "feeling" the ummm... swoop? for lack of a better word.

I can see where your technique would work too! I'll give it a try and see what happens.



That's how I started starting to teach spins, and I know better trainers than me who teach it that way from the start on every horse and with great success. I still use that method once they understand and are crossing effortlessly.

For me though, (being a part-time, relatively novice trainer who is not often aware of exactly what every part of the horse is doing), it's important to get a really good foundation on them using the technique I described. I screwed up a horse using the "corkscrew" method from the start; he would cross behind, bang his feet together and get generally tied up. A reining trainer finally showed me the side-pass-toward-the-nose thing, and I was able to undo the damage pretty quick. You can't teach a for-real spin using that techique; you'll be too close to the fence to do more than a nice slow controlled turnaround. So you need to use the corkscrew thing or something similar to really get it done. The two techniques blend seamlessly though - try the sidepass thing out with Joe. I bet you'll find that when he will sidepass toward his nose and do a half turn out of that move, you can go back to the corkscrew and his spins will be magically improved.

Let me know!

Edited by - Arenadirt on 04/24/2009 6:57:30 PM
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horsehugger2000
Advanced Rider



USA
493 Posts

Posted - 04/26/2009 :  8:19:52 PM  Show Profile Send horsehugger2000 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks Folks. will work on this this week!!

Wendi
Wendi's Riding Log

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Lokahi
Tenderfoot



France
4 Posts

Posted - 05/23/2012 :  7:30:46 PM  Show Profile  Visit Lokahi's Homepage Send Lokahi a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi,

You can also start on the ground, giving he help to understand what you want, and seeing how she moves.. jagged or fluent.

When riding see if you can move her hunches at a stop (use a wall if she goes forward too much)
Then on a circle get her to move her hunches a bit more, crossing just the back.
Whether she "new" it or not its a great reminder for her to take the steps..

Eventually you can have her "move out" sideways of the circle..
What you want to look for is a relaxed head down feeling, and a "curved" body, whether shoulder in or hunches out..

When beginning ask very little sideways, increasing the angle as you both progress. It should be a 3 lines movement, 1 front feet, 2nd front feet & 1 hind feet, then the 4th..

As i said, start at the stop, then the walk, then trot and so on.. If she is a gaited horse this is harder for them..

Happy Training,

Lokahi
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miloacademy
Tenderfoot

4 Posts

Posted - 09/11/2012 :  01:07:09 AM  Show Profile  Visit miloacademy's Homepage Send miloacademy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
thanks for sharing ridding tips.
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