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 Tom Thumb bit - opinion
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clearbluesky
Tenderfoot



8 Posts

Posted - 07/23/2006 :  8:45:12 PM  Show Profile  Visit clearbluesky's Homepage Send clearbluesky a Private Message
Why have I been seeing so many articles that are negative towards Tom Thumb style bits? I thought those bits were widely used? Can anyone shed some light or give their opinion for or against this type bit? Thanks!

Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 07/24/2006 :  12:56:19 AM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
Marketing. They are Marketed as a mild bit that is good for the green horse or green rider. One reason they are marketed this way is because of the misbelief that they are a snaffle with shanks, making it a mild bit that works as a snaffle and a curb. But that is all incorrect. No snaffle can have shanks. A snaffle is a non leverage, direct pressure bit that can have any type of mouth piece, joint, chain, leather, solid even ported. Many believe that a Curb bit is a bit with a solid mouth piece and many call the port the curb but what a curb bit is, is a leverage bit that uses a curb strap that causes curb pressure on the curb area of the lower jaw...the reason for the name Curb bit. A curb bit can have any type of mouth piece, jointed, chain, leather, solid, etc.

So a Tom THumb is a curb bit. One of the biggest problems with it is that many think it is a snaffle because of the marketing and use it as a snaffle but that can cause many problems to the poor horse. That holds true for ANY jointed Curb bit, but...

Not all jointed Curb bits are Tom Thumbs. There are only three Tom Thumb bits. The english Tom Thumb which is a short(very short) shanked curb bit that has a Solid ported mouth piece. The Aussie Tom Thumb which IS a ture snaffle that looks much like the Full cheek but has the ends flattened like a thumb print instead of rounded. And then the Western Tom Thumb which is the bit most people are talking about when you see Tom Thumb. Of the three the first two are good bits, the third is best left on the wall for many reasons.

Like I said above there is only three TTs(Tom Thumbs). There are many western bits that hold the name but are not TTs. Again this goes back to Marketing. They list anything with a jointed mouth piece and a western shank as a TT to make people think of it as mild and because humans like to group things. There is only one true western TT and that is the bit I'm talking about. Oddly enough when they group these other bits as a TT, normally pushing someone to buy a longer shanked one for control after the horse blows through the TT they are giving them a milder bit in most cases. The TT is bad by design. It has short STRAIGHT shanks. If there is a longer shank or a good curve in it or anything but a single jointed mouth piece it isn't a TT and by design is probably the better bit(but might not be right for the case).

There are many factors that make the TT a poor bit:

Mouth piece- in general the single jointed is thought to be mild, many times because of the misbelief that a single jointed bit is a snaffle and a snaffle is always mild(neither are true). The single jointed mouth piece isn't all that evil but is a pain for many horses. It forms a V shape in the mouth and the point can hit the roof of the mouth and many horses cannot handle that even on a snaffle. Less can handle it on a shank because on a shank the mouth piece will form that shape and then rotate down onto the tongue(which is much more sensitive then the bars). Also on a shanked bit you have the curb strap pushing the lower jaw up into that V shape causes a strong nutcracker action.

The shank- Yes short is generally milder but not always. It isn't just the length of shank that decides the amount of leverage but the ratio of the Purchase(part of cheek from headstall ring to mouth piece) to the shank(part of cheek from mouth piece to rein ring) that is what decides your leverage amount. The straighter the shank the louder and quicker the bit is to react but many times the less release and presignal you get. The wieght, curve and shape of the shank plays a huge role in how that bit acts.

Balance- Balance is very important but is over looked by most people. How a bit balances is going to make it work in different ways. Over balanced bits will give you a good release and presingle, under balanced are best left to good hands on exp. trainers, and straight hangers are inbetween. That's the basics it's a little more then that.

Release- this is very important for most riders and horses. The release is the reward for doing right. The TT has a very poor if any release of pressure.

Presignal- is your build in half halt, the split second "Hay we are going to do something" that the horse gets to be able to be ready to react. The TT has none so when you cue the horse feels the force of the bit with no warning. The more warning you can give and the lighter you use it the lighter and softer the horse can become.

The use- like I said many try to use it as a snaffle and that just causes problems. Using a shanked bit in place of a snaffle can be a real pain to the horse and hinder training.



Yep I don't like the Western TT, they are better for door stops then in a mouth. There are many, many good bits on the market and for every TT horse I have worked with or helped owners with there has been a better bit out there. Every time I have an owner that tells me their horse is happy in a TT or can only work in a TT I have been able to show them a horse that is much happier with something else, or a bit that was not a TT.

Yes they are widely used and at one time I did use them...until I started to educate myself about bits and found it not only lacking but a real pain to the horse. Think about who most people learn about bits. Many times the people that new riders learn from did not learn it from someone that was all that educated about bits either. Even many trainers and instructors do not take the time to learn more then the very least they need to know. Many stores do not hire based on knowledge of bits...not that I think they need to hire only educated bit people but I have worked with many stores to educate their sales people when they have had problems with that. And many will just use the bit the horse came with and not question it at all. Bits are not simple. There is a lot to them and a lot of people don't care enough about them to learn....me I tend to go over board about them and have a huge collection and I turn into a 5 yr old at Christmas with a new bit or bitless bridle that I have never tried before. I firmly believe that one cannot teach what one does not know so I make a point of learning all I can and staying on top of it so that in the mild of a clinic or class on them I can answer questions.
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goldie
Beginning Rider

133 Posts

Posted - 08/20/2006 :  4:44:21 PM  Show Profile  Visit goldie's Homepage Send goldie a Private Message
I am a new horse owner (20 yr old buckskin quarterhorse mare) with limited riding experience. My trainer and I are working Parelli-consequently when I am in his arena or my pasture we are using a rope halter and reins. Person I bought her from told me to use a western Thom Thumb. She is fine with it as long as I have very soft hands-we ride mostly with very loose reins when we are on trail. My trainer's assessment of her is that she has not been trained very well and can be a bit of a brat (no bucking, rearing, kicking, etc. but more of a "dont't want to do it so make me" attitude. I would like to switch to a different type bit as I am not comfortable using a rope halter on trail rides-she is not an old nag and can be spirited when she wants to be. What other bit would you recommend to try?
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Hook
Trail Boss (Moderator)



Canada
6115 Posts

Posted - 08/20/2006 :  7:10:09 PM  Show Profile  Visit Hook's Homepage Send Hook a Private Message
Both Profit and Hook go well in a "Billy Allen" bit which is a shanked bit with a jointed mouth piece with the movement of the jointed mouth piece limited by a centre roller.

It seems to be a good combination of gentleness and control while allowing some independent movement of each side of the bit.

Stormy can probably suggest some other alternatives.


Hook(ed)......on Horses

"The best things in life are nearest: Breath in your nostrils, light in your eyes, flowers at your feet, duties at your hand, the path of right just before you. Then do not grasp at the stars, but do life's plain, common work as it comes, certain that daily duties and daily bread are the sweetest things in life. " Author: Robert Louis Stevenson

Edited by - Hook on 08/20/2006 7:11:35 PM
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Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 08/21/2006 :  12:44:47 AM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
Bit choice depends on the level of the training of horse and rider, what you are doing, the shape of the horse's mouth/head and what the horse likes.

If the horse has a lot of holes in the training you may need to go through the halter, into the snaffle and then into a curb but since the horse is in a curb and you want this for a trail ride where safety is needed(not saying a curb bit is any more safe then a snaffle since control comes from the training not the bit) there shouldn't be a problem with going to a curb bit for trail riding and then back to something else that is better suited to training(the rope halter or snaffle). Just remember to stay light and not to ask too much as far as training stuff with it until the horse is more solid on them.

You could probably go with a single jointed mouth piece on a shank that has more curve. It still has some of the problems of the TT but not all of them. Or a Billy Allen with a shank that is shorter and has some curve to it. I really like the billy allen mouth pieces on curbs and snaffles.
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Red Hawk
Clinician



USA
5092 Posts

Posted - 08/21/2006 :  10:22:23 AM  Show Profile Send Red Hawk a Private Message
Hook; We have this very same question about the Tom Thumb come up time and again. Could you possibly make Stormie's excellent post about the TT a "sticky" to stay at the top of the "Tack Questions and Comments" forum? I'm betting the questions about TT's has come up over a dozen times.

Just a thought.

"God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses"
--Robert Browning

Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
-- Author Unknown
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Hook
Trail Boss (Moderator)



Canada
6115 Posts

Posted - 08/21/2006 :  11:23:58 AM  Show Profile  Visit Hook's Homepage Send Hook a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Red Hawk

Hook; We have this very same question about the Tom Thumb come up time and again. Could you possibly make Stormie's excellent post about the TT a "sticky" to stay at the top of the "Tack Questions and Comments" forum? I'm betting the questions about TT's has come up over a dozen times.

Just a thought.



Good Idea. Stormy is now stuck.

Hook(ed)......on Horses

"The best things in life are nearest: Breath in your nostrils, light in your eyes, flowers at your feet, duties at your hand, the path of right just before you. Then do not grasp at the stars, but do life's plain, common work as it comes, certain that daily duties and daily bread are the sweetest things in life. " Author: Robert Louis Stevenson
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Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 08/22/2006 :  01:14:11 AM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
O'no does that mean I can't get off the board anymore! lol

Now I feel kind of bad since I wrote that reply in a hurry and didn't put the time into it that the topic really deserves. It is a topic that comes up a lot and on nearly every horse board I have been on.
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Hook
Trail Boss (Moderator)



Canada
6115 Posts

Posted - 08/22/2006 :  05:30:19 AM  Show Profile  Visit Hook's Homepage Send Hook a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Stormie

O'no does that mean I can't get off the board anymore! lol

Now I feel kind of bad since I wrote that reply in a hurry and didn't put the time into it that the topic really deserves. It is a topic that comes up a lot and on nearly every horse board I have been on.



I know you have done some terrific posts regarding bits in general including several about the differences between snaffles and curbs and the evils of Tom Thumbs

Everyone on the forum could benifit from your research. I would be delighted if you would do a topic on "Bits - Selection and Use" and I will "sticky" it as a reference for all.

Hook(ed)......on Horses

"The best things in life are nearest: Breath in your nostrils, light in your eyes, flowers at your feet, duties at your hand, the path of right just before you. Then do not grasp at the stars, but do life's plain, common work as it comes, certain that daily duties and daily bread are the sweetest things in life. " Author: Robert Louis Stevenson
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