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PaintGal
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
5300 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2006 :  08:58:38 AM  Show Profile Send PaintGal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've been trying to make a decision on a new saddle and keep getting more confused. There are just too many choices!

I've seen (in 3D) the Circle Y Wichita and liked the looks of it except for that dagger that they call a horn. It seems too narrow & too high to me with a 3 1/4" Neck & 1 7/8" Cap. It was the first thing I noticed when I saw the saddle. I do like the suede seat though.

I like the Coyote Round but it's got that long narrow horn too. Is it basically the same saddle as the Wichita but with a round skirt?

I've checked out the Billy Cook saddles in the SaddleShop & WOW!, there are a lot of them! I think I like the Trail Saddle by Billy Cook 10-1536 and wondered how it compares in quality & looks with the Circle Y and how much it weighs.

I like the 15 1/2" Reinsman All-Around Ranch-Roper Saddle 4340 too but not sure I like it almost $500 more! Would it be okay to use it without the back girth? I wouldn't want to use one trail riding. I can see a branch getting hung up in it!

How do those saddle's seats compare to the Tucker's Gel-Cush seats? Are there other trail saddles that you (or anyone else) would recommend?

Better yet, Chuck, you choose & just ship it to me since I never did get my free saddle that ST was supposed to have delivered.

Karen ~ Trails
&
Joe Paint Gelding
Paoli, IN


"My treasures do not sparkle or glitter, they shine in the sun and neigh in the night."



~~~~~~

Chuck
Forum Admin



USA
1265 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2006 :  10:06:46 AM  Show Profile  Visit Chuck's Homepage Send Chuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
I like the Coyote Round but it's got that long narrow horn too. Is it basically the same saddle as the Wichita but with a round skirt?


Yes, it is the same as the 3604 but with round skirt.

quote:
I've checked out the Billy Cook saddles in the SaddleShop & WOW!, there are a lot of them! I think I like the Trail Saddle by Billy Cook 10-1536 and wondered how it compares in quality & looks with the Circle Y and how much it weighs.


I'm not too impressed with the Billy Cook entry level trail saddles. I would consider the Circle Y Wichita to have a better quality and appearance. The BC 1777 and 1783 are much nicer and of very good quality. I don't know the measurement of the horn post on the 1536 but the cap is narrower than the Circle Y. It looks as thought the post is the same. The 1536 weighs 28 lbs.

quote:
I like the 15 1/2" Reinsman All-Around Ranch-Roper Saddle 4340 too but not sure I like it almost $500 more! Would it be okay to use it without the back girth? I wouldn't want to use one trail riding. I can see a branch getting hung up in it!



No need to use the back girth. The rigging is 7/8 which is slightly back. If the position were full, to keep the leverage on the front of the tree when roping, the back cinch may be more necessary.

quote:
How do those saddle's seats compare to the Tucker's Gel-Cush seats? Are there other trail saddles that you (or anyone else) would recommend?

There really is no comparison to the Tucker Gel. The one good thing is it doesn't affect your position. Many people prefer the hard seat saddle as the most comfortable when spending long hours in the seat.

quote:
Better yet, Chuck, you choose & just ship it to me since I never did get my free saddle that ST was supposed to have delivered.


It looks as though ST didn't hold up to her end. You really need to work this out with her. I have her address if you need it.

Chuck

Horse Saddle Shop

http://www.horsesaddleshop.com
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PaintGal
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
5300 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2006 :  11:45:30 AM  Show Profile Send PaintGal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I really liked the looks of both the 1777 and the 1783 but need a 15" seat. Is a 15" seat available?

The 1783 looks like a bigger/heavier saddle so if all else is the same, I'd probably go with a 1777 if it's lighter and IF I went with either! I'd like to see it & the Wichita in 3D before I make a decision. Maybe ST will bring both down & let me choose. LOL!!

Karen ~ Trails
&
Joe Paint Gelding
Paoli, IN


"My treasures do not sparkle or glitter, they shine in the sun and neigh in the night."



~~~~~~
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OnTheWay
Clinician

1433 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2006 :  3:28:55 PM  Show Profile Send OnTheWay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Karen, just going to throw in two cents from the peanut gallery, and Chuck feel free to correct me here. I've been really flirting with the 805 (Big Horn). Chuck has great photos of it on his website. I met a woman who uses Tucker, loves them. Though they appear to put your body waaaay too far back for my interest. She said she came within an inch of buying the 805 (very soft, comfy seat, etc.) It would have been a second saddle she really didn't need, but she just loved it. I went to see one at the ONLY store around here that carries western gear (well, aside from Stateline which doesn't count here) and they had sold it. The woman said they go fast. So I haven't seen it in person, but wanted to raise it up for consideration, Chuck may be able to add more info on it, and I'd be very interested too!

One question I had, I asked my farrier about Center Fire Rigging, and he said to stay away from it (may just be cause of my horse's body, not a general opinion of his or may be). Chuck, your thoughts on that?

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PaintGal
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
5300 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2006 :  4:16:15 PM  Show Profile Send PaintGal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
OTW,

The Big Horn 805 does look comfy but I'm wanting a horn and a more western looking saddle. I want to hang stuff from the horn! LOL!!

Karen ~ Trails
&
Joe Paint Gelding
Paoli, IN


"My treasures do not sparkle or glitter, they shine in the sun and neigh in the night."



~~~~~~
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OnTheWay
Clinician

1433 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2006 :  5:15:31 PM  Show Profile Send OnTheWay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
PG, I'm having that same very nichy problem, probaby tons more than you are.

- I want a horn to hang things off of. (!!!!!)
-- I DON'T want a horn because they seem scary to me, just a big protrusion that could really cause some problems if you got pitched forward. Horns just strike me as accidents waiting to happen, and poked into where they'd poke into... that's not a part of my body I want to mess with.
-- No horn for me wins.

TRADE OFF: I am finding myself really attracted to round skirt saddles. I'm picturing me as the horse. Would I want a gigantic "girdle" on my back that just is there? Or would I want minimal saddle? Round skirt would win. Less contact, less sweat, less to be irritated or annoyed by.

I'm not offering a thing here, except that I'm a rather newbe rider compared to y'all, and I'm finding more and more friendly my English saddle. (AWwwwwwk????) Less to hang onto, nothing to strap anything to (except it can be added easily)... I'm just not wanting "stuff" that separates me from my horse. I found in the bucking time that I gained so much more protecting from feeling what Cloud was about to do, and preparing for it, than I do in a big, massive, tons-o-leather Western saddle.

What I liked about the 805 was it was a compromise. It doesn't have the horn, true. But an Endurance front provides a good grab on if you should need it, and it's also friendly to straps (lots! of them) so you can attach stucc. What scares me about the horn (a major, major serious thing) -- if you got rolled over on, yeah, end of story, but even being pitched forward, it's a protrusion that could cause some damage, serious damage if abruptly.

English saddle. (I know, sucks!)

I do NOT feel secure in an English saddle, yet that's what I used for convenience only last time I saddled Cloud, and she was fresh, it was probably chancy. I put it on Cloud simply from laziness. Lightweight, it was right there, figured I'd give it another try, figured nothing would happen right here on property, yadda yadda.

Things I found:
1. The horn was NOT missed. It would have stabbed me in the buck I got from Cloud. If not the first one, for sure when she hunched her back and got all 4 feet in the air in that hunchy, bucky unpredictable "thing" they do. I did not expect her to do that! She gave me a definite ride. At one point (not yet aware we were going there) had there been a tall, skinny horn, I'd have been smacked.
2. English saddle OR endurance saddle... With an endurance, this is a soft rounded thing so if you get it in the gut, it is friendlier. With the English saddle I was using, there's ZERO protrusion. It was kind of like a bareback pad. My security? I threaded a curb strap between the two front D rings. My "hang on" place was far better than a horn would have been. With an endurance saddle, I'd have had a much wider grasp, but if I needed it (which I did) it would have been there.
3. I'm now regretting some of my "horse camping" purchases, because I'm simply not likely to get into those situations. How important is a horn?

PG, I am getting stronger and stronger on "DITZING" horns. I can see more damage in "not lifeboat" situations from horns than not. The more I look at saddles, the more I just keep ditzing those with horns. I think they are dangerous and most importantly, you don't have to be in a wreck for them to be dangerous.

I laid over on one in a tack shop, the thing would have done serious damage had I been doing that with any force.
Carol


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PaintGal
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
5300 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2006 :  5:56:56 PM  Show Profile Send PaintGal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I had the Tucker Endurance Trail and it didn't have a horn. In fact, it looked a whole lot like that "Big Horn without a Horn" ...ROFL!! I know the dangers of the horn, have heard the horror stories, all the "what if's" but I've ridden with a horn for way longer than I've ridden without one.

I imagine that the stats for people gouched seriously with a horn would be much less than the people that have been launched from an English saddle. I'm also thinking that the people tossed and injured from an English saddle are much greater than the people that have had a horse roll over on them and suffer injuries from the horn. I'm also betting that the people who have dropped their water bottles from a hornless saddle far outweigh those who have dropped their water bottles from a saddle with a horn. LOL!!!

I agree that horns can be dangerous in some situations but what about a horse isn't?


Karen ~ Trails
&
Joe Paint Gelding
Paoli, IN


"My treasures do not sparkle or glitter, they shine in the sun and neigh in the night."



~~~~~~
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Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2006 :  8:15:29 PM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I haven't been hit by the horn that much. I can't even think of a time that I hit it and got hurt BUT I did get a bra stuck on one once and at the Hill one rider went to get off the horse and striped her shirt and bra off!!


I agree with paint, that horn doesn't get as many people as you might think but I don't agree that more people have gone off english. It's probably pretty even in a year. You can go off with a horn just like you can without one.


I have a bottle hold that you unhook and slip through the front of the saddle and rehook, works on both western and Endur saddles. You can't loose it. I have lost things off my saddle horn.

It's a person choice, horn or no horn. I go either, doesn't really matter to me as long as my butt stays in the saddle and the saddle stays on the upright horse.
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Chuck
Forum Admin



USA
1265 Posts

Posted - 03/21/2006 :  9:28:32 PM  Show Profile  Visit Chuck's Homepage Send Chuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
OK - let's get this back on subject rather than an English vs western vs endurance debate. From my understanding, PG is interested in a western saddle.

quote:
I really liked the looks of both the 1777 and the 1783 but need a 15" seat. Is a 15" seat available?

The 1783 looks like a bigger/heavier saddle so if all else is the same, I'd probably go with a 1777 if it's lighter and IF I went with either! I'd like to see it & the Wichita in 3D before I make a decision. Maybe ST will bring both down & let me choose. LOL!!



The 1783 is pretty heavy weighing 38 lbs. I don't have the 1777 weight in front of me, but I would expect 34 lbs. Both these saddles will be more than the Circle Y because of the wood tree in them. This is an overall added value for saddles, but some may consider the extra weight as a minus. Most of the BC saddles will be on the heavier side because all of their saddles use the wood tree where the less expensive Circle Y saddles use the Ralide tree. Of course, the Ralide tree works very well in pleasure or trail riding. If you wish to do any work with the um.. that impaling object - the horn, a ralide tree is not the best choice.

Chuck

Horse Saddle Shop

http://www.horsesaddleshop.com
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fracturedbones
Clinician



3424 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2006 :  10:19:34 AM  Show Profile  Visit fracturedbones's Homepage Send fracturedbones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I had ridden in mostly older used saddles until I bought my Circle Y Flex Tree.(From Chuck, of course!) Boy, what a difference! Besides soft seat, the nicest thing is the stirrups..like they were already turned. No ankle/leg aches. Don't know if the same for all Circle Y's.

Horn has saved me from going off and probably worse injuries!
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Red Hawk
Clinician



USA
5092 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2006 :  10:49:42 AM  Show Profile Send Red Hawk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think a lot of the style you choose to ride in has to do with what you started out with in the first place. I grew up with the TV westerns, and everyone in my neck of the woods rode in western saddles. I'm sure, back then, that anyone riding in an English saddle would've raised a whole mess of eyebrows along with a lot of jokes, teasings, and kidding around.

I even remember when English pleasure classes were first introduced to most of the local saddle club shows. Again, the first brave souls to show in the class were razzed quite a bit... until people started watching the English pleasure classes. Suddenly, it was the most popular class in the show! I even took my share of ribbons in it.

Anyway, I'm sure you get the point that western was the norm when I started riding horses, and you get used to having that horn handy when you need it. It's practically mandatory equipment if you are doing any barrel racing or pole bending. That's one thing I learned real quick when I started gaming. It's also kept me from going off young horses when I start riding them for the first time. Oh, there were times when I was caught off guard and went flying before I could grab for that horn, but 9 times out of 10, I sure was glad it was there.

The first time I rode an English saddle, I felt like half the saddle wasn't even there! My first thoughts were, "Where's the horn, for cryin' out loud!" It sure felt very strange until I got used to it. Oh, I could probably get used to not having that horn in front of me if I ever got another saddle, but I know it'd bug me to no end for quite some time. And most English saddles don't have those deep, secure seats like a western does, and the only English I've ridden in are hunt seat saddles. I doubt if I will ever go trail riding in an English saddle... well, unless nothing else is available. LOL Depends on the horse and the length of the ride.

In some ways I've probably been fortunate when it come to new saddles. Most of mine have been used and already broken in. I haven't bought a new saddle in years, and as long as the one I'm using now stays in one piece, I don't plan on buying another one for quite some time.

"God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses"
--Robert Browning

Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
-- Author Unknown
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PaintGal
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
5300 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2006 :  11:06:45 AM  Show Profile Send PaintGal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If the horn vs. no horn discussion needs to be continued a new thread should be opened in the appropiate forum. This forum is for specific saddle info and not a general discussion and IMOs.

Sorry we got OT but thanks for the info Chuck!

Karen ~ Trails
&
Joe Paint Gelding
Paoli, IN


"My treasures do not sparkle or glitter, they shine in the sun and neigh in the night."



~~~~~~
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hmeyer
Clinician



USA
2194 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2006 :  11:07:41 AM  Show Profile Send hmeyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Chuck, would you recommend the Dakota (Custom) #350 for a trail saddle? Or one of the other Dakota saddles?
Paint Gal, considerably less money!

"You learn a thing a day, you store up smart" - Festus Haggen

"A manís soul canít be hidden,
From the creatures in his care." -
Hard Candy Cowboy by Debra Meyer


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PaintGal
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
5300 Posts

Posted - 08/02/2006 :  6:14:55 PM  Show Profile Send PaintGal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Bumping this back up because I finally got to see that Billy Cook saddle that I thought I wanted. IT'S A BIG HONKIN SADDLE! Must weigh at least a hundred pounds. GEESH! I'm glad I waited till I found one before I ordered it. I can just see me trying to get that big saddle up on Joe!

Now I'm circling around synthetic saddles. Light weight, easy to clean, isn't a crisis if they get wet and not nearly as expensive... BIG advantages in my mind! I know there have to be some negatives and wondered what they were. I won't be roping or dragging stuff in it so I don't think the strength of the tree would be an issue.

Do they wear where saddlebags would hit/rub them? What happens if they get snagged with a thorn or branch? Do they melt if they get OFF or flyspray on them?

Anything else I should know about them?

Thanks!


Karen ~ Trails
&
Joe Paint Gelding
Paoli, IN


"My treasures do not sparkle or glitter, they shine in the sun and neigh in the night."



~~~~~~
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EZ2SPOT
Clinician

USA
3785 Posts

Posted - 08/02/2006 :  7:21:14 PM  Show Profile  Visit EZ2SPOT's Homepage Send EZ2SPOT a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Good questions regarding synthetic saddles; I'd like to know, too...I have only had one, a Bighorn Cordura. And did not trail ride in it, or really use it enough to find out whether they would hold up under that kind of use. The particular one I had, I felt the seat was WAY too wide for me. Saw pictures of the Fabtron Lady Trail, & it looks like it would be a lot more comfortable for a woman. And it is just a nicer looking saddle, all around. Have you considered that one, PG?

Weight...is a VERY important consideration, IMO! From experience, I've found that if a saddle is really heavy, you will tend to ride less, just because you will come to dread the hassle of getting the saddle on the horse. The synthetics sure do have a big advantage in this department.

EZ2SPOT
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PaintGal
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
5300 Posts

Posted - 08/02/2006 :  7:55:55 PM  Show Profile Send PaintGal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
EZ,

I saw the Fabtron Lady Trail in the SaddleShop but haven't seen it in 3D. I'd like to sit in it though. I would think it would be harder to sell it if you wanted to because only a woman would be interested in it. I don't think a man would buy a Fabtron Lady Trail.

I looked at an Abetta Pathfinder and the more I looked, the more I liked except it only comes in BLACK! GRRR. I saw a Big Horn today and think I like the Abetta looks better even if it is black. The BH fenders looked puckered around the stitching. I didn't see Abettas in the SaddleShop.

Karen ~ Trails
&
Joe Paint Gelding
Paoli, IN


"My treasures do not sparkle or glitter, they shine in the sun and neigh in the night."



~~~~~~
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Chuck
Forum Admin



USA
1265 Posts

Posted - 08/02/2006 :  10:33:58 PM  Show Profile  Visit Chuck's Homepage Send Chuck a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've come to appreciate the Lady Fabtron, especially it's durability. When you look under the skirting at the guts of the saddles you'll see a difference between the Fabtron and all other synthetic saddles. We used to carry Abetta but was not impressed with the quality. We fetl they were thrown together with not much care. Might be time to revist them.

The nylon will not last as long as leather. When you have an old leather saddle that is cleaned up and well maintained, you still can have a very attractive saddle. When you have a synthetic saddle that is old, you usually have a freyed and tattered saddle. The fenders are easy to replace but I would not consider a Cordura saddle if you are wanting a saddle that will be used a lot for many years. Of course, some can take care of saddles better than others so please don't be offended if you have a Cordura saddle that has lasted and looks good after 10 years of use.


Chuck

Horse Saddle Shop

http://www.horsesaddleshop.com
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Saddletramp
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
2546 Posts

Posted - 08/03/2006 :  10:05:13 AM  Show Profile  Visit Saddletramp's Homepage Send Saddletramp a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Chuck

I've come to appreciate the Lady Fabtron, When you look under the skirt at the guts



Wwwhhhhaaattttt????

...and does the Lord Fabtron know of this?

-sorry, I couldn't let it go....feel free to delete, Chuck....

-Saddletramp

"She never moved the stars from their courses,
but she loved a good man and she rode good horses"
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PaintGal
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
5300 Posts

Posted - 08/03/2006 :  10:18:03 AM  Show Profile Send PaintGal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
I've come to appreciate the Lady Fabtron, especially it's durability. When you look under the skirt....


Just what kind of lady IS Lady Fabtron?

Karen ~ Trails
&
Joe Paint Gelding
Paoli, IN


"My treasures do not sparkle or glitter, they shine in the sun and neigh in the night."



~~~~~~

Edited by - PaintGal on 08/03/2006 10:19:09 AM
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fracturedbones
Clinician



3424 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2006 :  3:07:26 PM  Show Profile  Visit fracturedbones's Homepage Send fracturedbones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
PaintGal
I have an old Abetta, (synthetic) I bought 2nd hand. Pick it up with palm of hand , weighs about 10 pounds. Need a larger seat since the kids have grown, but consider buying another synthetic like Fabron or Abetta.

For feeling sturdy, I love my (saddle from Chuck) Circle Y flex, and thing the wt. is about 24#. But for quick saddle up and if joints aching, man, that light wt. saddle is a dream. I wouldn't put it out of the running.
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Xenya
Tenderfoot



USA
17 Posts

Posted - 09/24/2010 :  09:59:48 AM  Show Profile Send Xenya a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Fun Thread, y'all! Had to chime in-- love my Big Horn flex tree-- can carry all my gear out in one trip to the horse. My kid can put it on, and it makes a great reward to the horse to take off her saddle in the pasture and walk home with it after she does something great. I have seen her trying to figure out the rest of the week how to get me to do that again! I would not expect it to be around in 50 years like some of the old stock saddles my cousin still rides in. The nylon can rip and wear. But the used one I bought still looks great after a year of a riding. A tip I heard from an expert horseman who lives in the saddle-- the square skirt can roll up and wear out faster than a round skirt.


Xenya from SE TX
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Xenya
Tenderfoot



USA
17 Posts

Posted - 09/24/2010 :  10:07:09 AM  Show Profile Send Xenya a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I forgot to mention it was a cordura cheaper model. The seat was hard, so I had to add padding. I also have read other comments concerning this. I have a friend who tried a Lady Fabtron and felt that the twist was a little strange. She thought it seemed like it might fit a larger lady. "Thunder thighs" was her exact term, but don't quote me on that, LOL. I steered clear of them based on this, but would like to hear the input if others find them comfortable.

Xenya from SE TX
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OldRider
Tenderfoot



USA
1 Posts

Posted - 01/03/2012 :  7:15:23 PM  Show Profile Send OldRider a Private Message  Reply with Quote
For what it is worth, the best saddle I have ever used is King Series Trail saddle bought online. I've had alot a of saddles in my time but this one required no break in and there was never a saddle sore on my behind.
Go leather for durability.
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