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 ported D ring bits?
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Cayuse
Advanced Rider



Canada
156 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2013 :  1:01:01 PM  Show Profile  Visit Cayuse's Homepage Send Cayuse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've been browsing bits online and came across ported snaffles. When did these appear, and what impact to they have on a horse's responses? when would one use a bit like it?

Cayuse
A lovely horse is always an experience...It is an emotional experience of the kind that is spoiled by words. Beryl Markham
Riding is a complicated joy. You learn something each time. It is never quite the same, and you never know it all. Monica Dickens

Red Hawk
Clinician



USA
5092 Posts

Posted - 08/16/2013 :  2:17:32 PM  Show Profile Send Red Hawk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Whether a bit is a snaffle or a curb had nothing to do with the mouthpiece. The difference is if the bit applies leverage or not. A snaffle does not apply leverage, and a curb does. If a bit needs any kind of strap to function, it's a curb bit. Hence the term "curb strap". A snaffle might have a strap but that strap is not necessary for a snaffle to function. All that kind of strap is for is to keep the bit from slipping sideways through the horse's mouth.

A snaffle is a mouthpiece with rings of different shapes attached to the end of that mouthpiece. No shanks. How the mouthpiece is shaped or what kind of mouthpiece it has makes no difference. A curb has shanks and works on leverage.

Curb bits are designed to work using indirect pressure from the rider's hands... neck reining. A snaffle is designed to work using direct pressure... riding with two hands. Though a well trained horse can be ridden with one hand in a snaffle bit. I've done it for years with my mare Terra whom I ride in a two piece broken mouth D-ring snaffle bit.

One more thing: Bits are more often than not mislabeled as snaffles when they aren't. Mainly because of the misconception that a snaffle is any bit, shanks or not, that has a broken mouthpiece is a snaffle. Not so as I have already explained. Some bit makers have no idea what they're talking about and don't even research their own product.

Just like curb bits, the more severe the mouthpiece on a snaffle bit the gentler a rider's hands must be not to abuse the bit and the horse's mouth. Ported snaffle bits have been around for years. My guess is you just don't see them much do to lack of popularity.

"God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses"
--Robert Browning

Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
-- Author Unknown
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EZ2SPOT
Clinician

USA
3785 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2013 :  5:57:11 PM  Show Profile  Visit EZ2SPOT's Homepage Send EZ2SPOT a Private Message  Reply with Quote
RH, I don't think that was the question! Cayuse is apparently talking about an actual snaffle that has a port in the mouthpiece. I've seen them, but have never used one. It is interesting, and I'd never thought about it before, but now I'm wondering how different it would be for the horse, than a jointed mouthpiece.

EZ2SPOT
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Red Hawk
Clinician



USA
5092 Posts

Posted - 08/17/2013 :  10:42:43 PM  Show Profile Send Red Hawk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by EZ2SPOT

RH, I don't think that was the question! Cayuse is apparently talking about an actual snaffle that has a port in the mouthpiece. I've seen them, but have never used one. It is interesting, and I'd never thought about it before, but now I'm wondering how different it would be for the horse, than a jointed mouthpiece.

EZ2SPOT



You're right, EZ. And to answer that question I'd say a snaffle with a ported mouthpiece would be harsher than a jointed one, because it wouldn't break over the tongue and end up putting more pressure on the tongue instead. JMO

"God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses"
--Robert Browning

Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
-- Author Unknown
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hmeyer
Clinician



USA
2194 Posts

Posted - 08/18/2013 :  07:41:10 AM  Show Profile Send hmeyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
RH, however, I think sometimes a jointed snaffle can end up hitting the horse in the roof of the mouth with the joint, which can be a problem. I think double joints can alleviate this somewhat. Any opinion on that?

"You learn a thing a day, you store up smart" - Festus Haggen

"A manís soul canít be hidden,
From the creatures in his care." -
Hard Candy Cowboy by Debra Meyer


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EZ2SPOT
Clinician

USA
3785 Posts

Posted - 08/18/2013 :  12:15:09 PM  Show Profile  Visit EZ2SPOT's Homepage Send EZ2SPOT a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am using a double-jointed snaffle with a copper roller for Warsong, and she seems to be much happier in this bit, than she was in a regular snaffle.

EZ2SPOT
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Mrs Hook
Trainer



Canada
862 Posts

Posted - 08/18/2013 :  7:01:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit Mrs Hook's Homepage Send Mrs Hook a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by EZ2SPOT

I am using a double-jointed snaffle with a copper roller for Warsong, and she seems to be much happier in this bit, than she was in a regular snaffle.

EZ2SPOT



If you watch a Myler Bit demonstration they talk about the bit breaking and poking into the roof of the mouth. That is why all their bits have some kind of solid join in the center, and some kind of port.

Both Promise and her Grandmother absolutely hated a snaffle bit. Head in the air, mouth open, gagging. It was awful. They just cannot cope with a broken mouthpiece.

I think I have the bit that you have EZ. It is a nice bit and most horses seem to like it.

Cayuse, these bits have become more popular because of the Myler bit company. Check them out. As above, in some cases they are a milder kinder bit because the pressure is taken off the tongue by the port. I usually let the horse tell me if they like the bit or not, and ride them with a bit they like.

Mrs Hook's Riding Log


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Red Hawk
Clinician



USA
5092 Posts

Posted - 08/18/2013 :  8:41:41 PM  Show Profile Send Red Hawk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'd say it would depend on how wide the port is as to whether it would give tongue relief. And I can see the reason why a single jointed broken mouthpiece can poke the horse in the roof of the mouth. But I would think that would depend on how much curve is in the two pieces so it breaks evenly over the tongue. Terra doesn't mind hers at all.

And my thought about the ported snaffle would be it'd be solid and unyielding and come down like a bar across either side of the tongue. Ouch! Or am I wrong ?

"God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses"
--Robert Browning

Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
-- Author Unknown
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Arenadirt
Trainer

USA
670 Posts

Posted - 08/19/2013 :  11:38:51 AM  Show Profile  Visit Arenadirt's Homepage Send Arenadirt a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have been using this Dutton bit on Seven for a couple of years now, ever since NCHA made it legal in the cutting pen:

http://www.nrsworld.com/dutton-bits/copper-wrapped-snaffle-bit-w-small-lifesaver-11178

They call it a snaffle, but it does have a curb. Kit Carpenter gave me this bit about ten years ago, saying that Sev would like it when he got older. Sure enough, he's more comfortable with that bit than with anything else he has ever put in his mouth. But I wouldn't use it for training - it is NOT good for making hard or sudden contact (not that any bit is), it works best for loose-rein communication. So much of making the right choice depends on the rider's hands and the horse's brain...

"There is something about the outside of a horse...that is good for the inside of a man." ~Winston Churchill~
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Mrs Hook
Trainer



Canada
862 Posts

Posted - 08/19/2013 :  1:13:44 PM  Show Profile  Visit Mrs Hook's Homepage Send Mrs Hook a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That is interesting. Any idea why they would put the lifesaver center in like that?

Mrs Hook's Riding Log


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Red Hawk
Clinician



USA
5092 Posts

Posted - 08/19/2013 :  1:25:11 PM  Show Profile Send Red Hawk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Arenadirt

I have been using this Dutton bit on Seven for a couple of years now, ever since NCHA made it legal in the cutting pen:

http://www.nrsworld.com/dutton-bits/copper-wrapped-snaffle-bit-w-small-lifesaver-11178

They call it a snaffle, but it does have a curb. Kit Carpenter gave me this bit about ten years ago, saying that Sev would like it when he got older. Sure enough, he's more comfortable with that bit than with anything else he has ever put in his mouth. But I wouldn't use it for training - it is NOT good for making hard or sudden contact (not that any bit is), it works best for loose-rein communication. So much of making the right choice depends on the rider's hands and the horse's brain...



This is another example of a bit manufacturer that doesn't understand the difference between a snaffle and a curb... and what I've seen numerous times in places (and online) where bits are sold. That bit is a curb, not a snaffle.

And, of course, I know you know this, AD .

Thought I'd add that I echo Mrs. Hook's observation. I'd love to read the answer to her question.

"God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses"
--Robert Browning

Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
-- Author Unknown
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Arenadirt
Trainer

USA
670 Posts

Posted - 08/19/2013 :  4:18:42 PM  Show Profile  Visit Arenadirt's Homepage Send Arenadirt a Private Message  Reply with Quote
There was some lore attached to that bit design, if I can remember it. The lifesaver supposedly amplifies slight hand movements, delivering a feeling to the mouth. And that hopefully makes it easier to communicate on a looser rein. I should probably put in in my own mouth to see what exactly it feels like (would not be the first time).
I do know that with Seven at least, he is MUCH lighter in that bit than when in a true snaffle or even the super-complicated rig with swiveling jowls and noseband that I trained him in for a while. And it's not about pain or fear of pain - I discovered early on that direct contact is not something that goes with that bit... Sorry, I wish Kit was here to recall the story.

Ginger, Greg Dutton has been building bits for over 35 years, so I'm pretty sure he knows what a snaffle is - guess it's just not worth trying to educate the public about terminology when you have bits to build!

"There is something about the outside of a horse...that is good for the inside of a man." ~Winston Churchill~
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Red Hawk
Clinician



USA
5092 Posts

Posted - 08/20/2013 :  6:09:12 PM  Show Profile Send Red Hawk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Arenadirt

There was some lore attached to that bit design, if I can remember it. The lifesaver supposedly amplifies slight hand movements, delivering a feeling to the mouth. And that hopefully makes it easier to communicate on a looser rein. I should probably put in in my own mouth to see what exactly it feels like (would not be the first time).
I do know that with Seven at least, he is MUCH lighter in that bit than when in a true snaffle or even the super-complicated rig with swiveling jowls and noseband that I trained him in for a while. And it's not about pain or fear of pain - I discovered early on that direct contact is not something that goes with that bit... Sorry, I wish Kit was here to recall the story.

Ginger, Greg Dutton has been building bits for over 35 years, so I'm pretty sure he knows what a snaffle is - guess it's just not worth trying to educate the public about terminology when you have bits to build!



Mr. Dutton might not have been the one to apply the name "snaffle" to that bit. It could be whoever marketed the bit who called it a snaffle and not knowing the difference. That happens A LOT as I've already said. A maker makes the bit, yes, but once it's mass produced for public sale, it's up to the person marketing that bit to decide how to present it to the public. The problem is that an uneducated person will call this bit a snaffle regardless how you try to explain otherwise because that was what it was labeled at time of purchase. And that's a real shame.

"God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses"
--Robert Browning

Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
-- Author Unknown
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Arenadirt
Trainer

USA
670 Posts

Posted - 08/21/2013 :  11:22:32 AM  Show Profile  Visit Arenadirt's Homepage Send Arenadirt a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Of course you're right, Ginger. The good news (in this case) is that Seven doesn't much care what people call it - to him it's just his bit. :)
It is a shame if people get (and take) advice based on principles they don't understand. I remember my own confusion about mouthpieces, ports, shanks, correction vs training vs general use vs show bits. Until you've had a chance to experience how different horses respond to different bits, it's all just a bunch of stories, and real easy to make a bad choice based on all those words.

"There is something about the outside of a horse...that is good for the inside of a man." ~Winston Churchill~
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Red Hawk
Clinician



USA
5092 Posts

Posted - 08/21/2013 :  1:33:23 PM  Show Profile Send Red Hawk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Arenadirt

Of course you're right, Ginger. The good news (in this case) is that Seven doesn't much care what people call it - to him it's just his bit. :)
It is a shame if people get (and take) advice based on principles they don't understand. I remember my own confusion about mouthpieces, ports, shanks, correction vs training vs general use vs show bits. Until you've had a chance to experience how different horses respond to different bits, it's all just a bunch of stories, and real easy to make a bad choice based on all those words.



Ahhh, if we could all be like horses in that respect. LOL

"God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses"
--Robert Browning

Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
-- Author Unknown
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