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 CRUISER STARTS KINDERGARTEN
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Mrs Hook
Trainer



Canada
862 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2007 :  3:00:41 PM  Show Profile  Visit Mrs Hook's Homepage Send Mrs Hook a Private Message  Reply with Quote


Up till now Cruiser has just been enjoying life - in at night, out during the day, friends to romp and play with, lots to eat and absolutely no stress. School started today!! He left the other horses in the barn, and went out to learn stuff that all good little horses have to learn.

I clipped the longe line to his halter, picked up the whip with the lash doubled back in my hand, gave him about 6 foot of line, bumped him on his behind with the whip a couple times, all the while making kissy-go-ahead noises. He looked at me kind of puzzled-like, shrugged and walked forward. We did this a few times around and I gave him another few feet of line. A few minutes later he was out on about 15 feet of line and walking around as if this was he 20th time longing, not his first.

After about 5 minutes of this, I let the lash on the whip go, made faster kissy noises and kept letting the lash come in contact with his butt. He started to trot, stayed in the circle and kept going. He is such a good boy!!

The other direction was more of a challenge. I started the same way as on the left side, and he kept trying to turn so his left side was next to me. I ended up half driving, half longing him - all the while tapping the whip on his butt and making the kissy-go-ahead noises. He finally figured out that it was ok to be on the other side of me. After he made a half dozen good circles we stopped the longing lessen.

We then worked on walking straight, stopping and standing. The idea of this is he must follow my body cues, with minimal use of the lead rope. We did the stay-with-me start, then walked a few steps, then the whoa and stand. When we got to the end of the arena we did a pivot to the right in order to start the start-walk-whoa routine all over again. I lifted his head up, to free up his shoulders, pushed hard away from me and he stepped across with his front feet. When his shoulders are up, his weight is on his backend so he can't step out of the turn with his behind. Altogether today, we did three pretty good turns and probabably about 20 stops and starts. By the end of the lesson he was stopping and starting with mostly verbal and body cues. Did I say what a good boy he is?!!

That was the end of the first lesson. It lasted about 15 minutes. Over the winter I am planning on working and fitting him for halter and showmanship classes in the spring. I will also be saddling him, longing him with a bit and side reins and probably stepping on and off, so when the time comes to ride him it should be just a matter of getting on and riding.


Mrs Hook's Riding Log


PaintGal
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
5300 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2007 :  3:29:50 PM  Show Profile Send PaintGal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sounds like Cruiser is off to a great start! I'm looking forward to "watching" the training.....which reminds me.... just WHERE are the pics??

Karen ~ Trails
&
Joe Paint Gelding
Paoli, IN


"My treasures do not sparkle or glitter, they shine in the sun and neigh in the night."



~~~~~~
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Mrs Hook
Trainer



Canada
862 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2007 :  3:42:46 PM  Show Profile  Visit Mrs Hook's Homepage Send Mrs Hook a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PaintGal

Sounds like Cruiser is off to a great start! I'm looking forward to "watching" the training.....which reminds me.... just WHERE are the pics??



Whip in one hand, longe line in the other. No place for a camera.

Mrs Hook's Riding Log


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PaintGal
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
5300 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2007 :  5:02:14 PM  Show Profile Send PaintGal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I thought you had a photographer in the family? LOL! It would be cool to see some pics of you working Cruiser... HINT!

Karen ~ Trails
&
Joe Paint Gelding
Paoli, IN


"My treasures do not sparkle or glitter, they shine in the sun and neigh in the night."



~~~~~~
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beccajane
Trainer



USA
985 Posts

Posted - 10/31/2007 :  8:11:18 PM  Show Profile  Visit beccajane's Homepage Send beccajane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Oh Yeah! I was excited when I saw this topic. Almost forgot about that good boy. NOT!
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appygirl
Clinician



USA
3211 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2007 :  08:55:41 AM  Show Profile Send appygirl a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sounds like Cruiser is getting off to kindergarten on the right foot. I agree that we need to see pictoral or video coverage of his lessons, not to mention frequent progress reports.

Cruiser should get a gold star by his name today! ^_^

Appygirl

Man does not have the only memory,
The animals remember,
The earth remembers,
The stones remember,
If you know how to listen, they will tell you many things.
- Claude Kuwanijuma - Hopi Spiritual leader


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Mrs Hook
Trainer



Canada
862 Posts

Posted - 11/01/2007 :  2:50:07 PM  Show Profile  Visit Mrs Hook's Homepage Send Mrs Hook a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by appygirl

Sounds like Cruiser is getting off to kindergarten on the right foot. I agree that we need to see pictoral or video coverage of his lessons, not to mention frequent progress reports.

Cruiser should get a gold star by his name today! ^_^



Yeah, gold star for baby Cruiser!!! He is such a good boy.

I can do the progress reports, but I really don't know how to depict the training in pictures. They will just show a lady in scruffy coveralls and touque beside a fat furry horse or same little pony on the end of a longe line.

We are on dial up and I can't watch videos, so can't image I could load them.


Mrs Hook's Riding Log


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ILoveJoe
Clinician



USA
2499 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2007 :  2:43:48 PM  Show Profile Send ILoveJoe a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would expect nothing less than perfection from Cruiser on his first day of school. He has had nothing but good examples to learn from before he ever started.
Go Cruiser!!
Even one little picture will satisfy my craving for the visual. Purty please....?




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mtn rider
Trainer



Canada
634 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2007 :  2:39:23 PM  Show Profile Send mtn rider a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would like to make a suggestion. If any other members agree with this thought, please say so.

Mrs Hook, you do VERY well at describing what is going on. I could visualize everything you were doing, from the way you described it all.

Now, being as Cruiser is really DE's baby, with all of us seeing him right from birth, combined with your ability to describe everything, and knowledge of horse training, my suggestion is this.

2 threads, this one, where we can comment, as well as a locked sticky thread, (with no comments to wade through) a sort of training log, of all of the steps cruiser will go through, till he is being ridden, or beyond.

What I am suggesting will be alot of work for Mrs Hook, if she is willing.
I just thought it would be nice to have a documented log, from start to finish, on how you start a young horse. Cruiser would be the perfect candidate, as he kinda belongs to all of us already, as a cyber horse.
Mr Hook, being a mod, could probably just cut and paste most of it together, adjusting it as needed.

What do you think?




Ride safe, return safe.

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mtn rider
Trainer



Canada
634 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2007 :  11:51:56 AM  Show Profile Send mtn rider a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks Hook, I see you have started a sticky at the top there!

Ride safe, return safe.

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Hook
Trail Boss (Moderator)



Canada
6115 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2007 :  07:48:47 AM  Show Profile  Visit Hook's Homepage Send Hook a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Bowing to popular demand from Cruiser's fans on the Forum here is a couple of Cruiser shots as teasers until Mrs Hook decides whether or not to attempt to post a series of lunging and showmanship/halter lessons.

Just a nice head shot




An easy lunging shot



And one to show just how much he has grown. Remember he is about 20 months old here.


Hook(ed)......on Horses

"The best things in life are nearest: Breath in your nostrils, light in your eyes, flowers at your feet, duties at your hand, the path of right just before you. Then do not grasp at the stars, but do life's plain, common work as it comes, certain that daily duties and daily bread are the sweetest things in life. " Author: Robert Louis Stevenson
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Montezrider
Clinician



USA
1284 Posts

Posted - 11/11/2007 :  09:08:22 AM  Show Profile Send Montezrider a Private Message  Reply with Quote

Yes, it would be a lot of work for the Hooks. BUT.... I would selfishly sit back and enjoy seeing it all, and reading all about it!

Cindy

A good rider has a thinking mind, fine emotions and a sensitive hand.-Tu Yu,72 BC

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appygirl
Clinician



USA
3211 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2007 :  4:13:05 PM  Show Profile Send appygirl a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Definiteliy need the series of lunging and halter work. The Cruiser Chronicles won't be complete without them. What has been started must continue. We're following that fella from birth to retirement! ^_^

Unblievable how much he has grown! And he's really looking good and filling out nicely. As with most 20-month olds, he looks taller in his hindquarters, or is Mrs. Hook shrinking? ^_^

Appygirl

Man does not have the only memory,
The animals remember,
The earth remembers,
The stones remember,
If you know how to listen, they will tell you many things.
- Claude Kuwanijuma - Hopi Spiritual leader


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Colleen
Trainer



Canada
940 Posts

Posted - 11/12/2007 :  6:25:22 PM  Show Profile Send Colleen a Private Message  Reply with Quote
WhatagoodboycruiserSoudns so interesting what you are doing with him. He is also gorgeous!!

Colleen who hopes to have a horse soon.

The air of heaven is that which blows between a horse's ears -- Arabian proverb

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ILoveJoe
Clinician



USA
2499 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2007 :  1:20:24 PM  Show Profile Send ILoveJoe a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cruiser looks great. He really is getting to be a BIG boy!
I love the head shot.

He looks like he is relaxed and thinking about what is being asked of him in the middle photo of him moving out on the lunge line.

Can you going to share your tips on 'how to' stop your horse and get them to stand square? He looks very good in that last photo.

Thanks for the photo 'fix'.




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Mrs Hook
Trainer



Canada
862 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2007 :  2:33:59 PM  Show Profile  Visit Mrs Hook's Homepage Send Mrs Hook a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nov 13 Update

The 3rd longing session was way different from the first couple. During the first two Cruiser was figuring out what exactly was happening. The third one, he knew what was happening. I led him out and his head was in the air, and there was a spring to his step. I was kind of going "Hmmmmm". So, when I went to let him out on the line, I very carefully played out about 8 foot and stepped back before I asked him to move. Good thing too!!! We got feet in the air and a couple of leaps before I could get his attention back on me. I started him out to the left, he did about a circle at a fast lope, spun around and proceeded to scoot around to the right.

Now, conventional horse training methods say I should have stopped him and made him do what I wanted. Ok, I have a baby booting it around on a rope, how do I ask him to stop and do what I want? He clearly isn't listening to me, he is playing and enjoying himself. My horse training method is about listening and responding to what is happening now, not what you would like to be happening - so - I let him play. When he got the kinks out and was listening then we stopped and worked to the left, even when he kept insisting that he wanted to go right.

Using hindsight, when he walked out of the barn all bouncy I should have just done some 'pay attention to me' ground-work exercises, but that is hindsight and I didn't. So, I guess the lesson in this is to pay attention to your horse from the beginning otherwise you may have to make some quickly altered decisions as you go along. The other lesson, is don't be afraid to make altered decisions to keep you safe and keep the horse safe. Also Cruiser is a baby and he is learning, he needs all good experiences now and no bad ones. Good ones are easy to build on, bad ones keep coming back to bite you!! If he had been a mature horse, I would have smacked his butt and insisted on him listening to me!

Fast forward to today, this is probably his 6th or so lesson.

He walked out nicely, when he started to think about going out to play I pulled his head down and said 'Pay attention to me'. Stopped him, backed him up a few steps and kept reinforcing the you-must-pay-attention-to me!!! By the time we got out to the longing area he was relaxed and listening.

I was still careful when we started longing, I made sure he had enough rope that I was out of heels way when I asked him to start. Well, he started all right - WITH HIS NOSE IN THE DIRT!!! I mean actually in the dirt - he walked around dragging his nose and made nose marks all around the circle!!! I guess he was relaxed, but that was a bit much, so after about the third nose dragging circle, I whacked his butt with the whip and pulled his head in. He responded with both feet in the air toward me. I responded with a good hard smack on the butt with the longe whip, which in turn made him go tearing around. Using both hands I pulled him in, got him stopped and went and had a chat about kicking at people on the longe line. He got shook, and yelled at and threatened. After he looked suitably chastised I sent him back out again. This time he went around nicely, both at the walk and the trot. The whoa part doesn't work so well yet, but we will keep practising.

The walking and stopping exercising are coming along great. Today we added the back-a-few steps to the stop. The nice turns he did when we first started have now gone. Now he plants his front end, turns his hind end around and then walks off. I can't let him get into that bad habit so today we did a bunch of walk, stop, stand and then I would take the end of the whip and touch each front leg in turn as I lifted up on his head and pushed away from me. By the end of the lesson he was starting to move each leg to a touch, which is all I could really expect. I would touch, lift his head and push, if I got a good response I would walk on and praise him. If I got a tangle of legs, or the backend coming around I would stop and regroup and keep trying and as soon as I got something that resembled a cross-over I would walk him out and praise him.

We ended the lesson after about 5 minutes of doing this. He was happy and relaxed but still didn't understand why someone would want him to cross over on his front end. A few more lessons like this and we will start moving each individual foot in preparation to setting up square.

Mrs Hook's Riding Log


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Mrs Hook
Trainer



Canada
862 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2007 :  2:50:07 PM  Show Profile  Visit Mrs Hook's Homepage Send Mrs Hook a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ILoveJoe

Cruiser looks great. He really is getting to be a BIG boy!
I love the head shot.

He looks like he is relaxed and thinking about what is being asked of him in the middle photo of him moving out on the lunge line.

Can you going to share your tips on 'how to' stop your horse and get them to stand square? He looks very good in that last photo.

Thanks for the photo 'fix'.



He is getting big. Last time we sticked him he was 15 in front and 15.2 behind. I hope he makes it to 16 or 16.2, I would really like a nice big allrounder.

He does look relaxed in that picture, but read the update. A lot of the time he was booting it around, not listening to me at all. (Can't post those pictures, it would spoil his reputation as a good boy!!)

About standing square, Cruiser is naturally balanced and athletic so I do have an advantage. What I do is facing squarely to the front, lean a bit forward, move my hand and arm forward letting it bump the halter and cluck, and start walking. If he keeps dragging I use a dressage whip and reach back and tap his ribs as I move forward. It doesn't take long before they start following your body movements.

Stopping is the reverse of what I just explained. I start by leaning my body back, saying whoa, and stopping and letting them run into the halter. Once they get the hang of that, then I stop, immediately turn and face them and rock them back on their behind and ask for about two steps backwards. They will soon start to anticipate the backwards steps and will start bringing their behinds up under them and then they will be stopping pretty square.


Mrs Hook's Riding Log


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beccajane
Trainer



USA
985 Posts

Posted - 11/13/2007 :  8:32:57 PM  Show Profile  Visit beccajane's Homepage Send beccajane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What a beautiful boy he is! He is losing that baby look and is quite stunning! And SO BIG! I just cannot believe it has been almost 2 years! He doesn't look like he has missed any meals either. He is built so well. I think I just might like his look better than a black filly! ;) Just kidding! Yes, I vote for more more MORE! Have to keep track of the Boy Wonder! Thank you again for so kindly sharing him with this forum!
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Red Hawk
Clinician



USA
5092 Posts

Posted - 11/14/2007 :  10:54:14 AM  Show Profile Send Red Hawk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I imagine you're already doing this, but I would suggest that you review stopping Cruiser with a halter and lead if he won't stop when you tell him to do so on the lunge line. I know when I start working with my horses at this stage of the game, I want those brakes in prime working order by the time we get to the lunging stage. Not saying that they always listen to me, but I usually get it most of the time.

I also do pretty much like you did with Cruiser when he was full of it on the end of the line. It's good for them to have some free time to play on that line (if they want to) at the start of the lunging lesson. I even do that with my more seasoned horses and give them maybe 10 minutes or so to play and work off a little steam. It's usually a lot easier to let them have this time than to have a fight on my hands, and once they have it out of their system, they are much more ready to listen to me and get down to work.

All-in-all, from what you've told us so far, Cruiser sounds like any typical Fall yearling. You've made a great start with him, and I'm sure it'll all fall into place as you go along.


"God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses"
--Robert Browning

Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
-- Author Unknown
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tagnrocky
Clinician



USA
1776 Posts

Posted - 11/18/2007 :  4:52:47 PM  Show Profile  Visit tagnrocky's Homepage Send tagnrocky a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I can't believe I missed Cruiser's first day at Kindergarden! Please keep us posted with pics of course on his progess.
Sounds like he is doing fine.

Nancy (and Tag & Rocky)
Free & easy down the trail I go......
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spots
Advanced Rider

Australia
444 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2008 :  4:30:55 PM  Show Profile  Visit spots's Homepage Send spots a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Love this thread i was smiling reading about his lessons i could picture what was happening and yes i think that you explain things very well even i can understand what your saying
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Arenadirt
Trainer

USA
670 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2008 :  10:06:06 PM  Show Profile  Visit Arenadirt's Homepage Send Arenadirt a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What a beauty! And what a BIG one. Sure looks like he should develop a heck of a stop (not to mention go.

How's his attention span? How often are you going to work him now, and for how long?

Lena was so funny at that stage (20 months last spring) - it would take a few minutes to really get her focused, then she'd hold it well for maybe 10-15 minutes, at which point you could see her starting to fray... I'd look for one really good response then quit her. Over maybe a month or six weeks she got to where she was good for around 45 minutes. Six months to get her good for a couple of hours. Could only work with her every third day or so, or it might have come faster. But at least by the time I got on her it was a non-event. So I'm counting her a success and myself lucky!
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Mrs Hook
Trainer



Canada
862 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  10:10:41 AM  Show Profile  Visit Mrs Hook's Homepage Send Mrs Hook a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Arenadirt

What a beauty! And what a BIG one. Sure looks like he should develop a heck of a stop (not to mention go.

How's his attention span? How often are you going to work him now, and for how long?

Lena was so funny at that stage (20 months last spring) - it would take a few minutes to really get her focused, then she'd hold it well for maybe 10-15 minutes, at which point you could see her starting to fray... I'd look for one really good response then quit her. Over maybe a month or six weeks she got to where she was good for around 45 minutes. Six months to get her good for a couple of hours. Could only work with her every third day or so, or it might have come faster. But at least by the time I got on her it was a non-event. So I'm counting her a success and myself lucky!



What attention span???

He is doing pretty much as you described Lena, somedays are better than others. He is really willing and sweet, so I just keep working around what he is thinking on that particular day. A lesson usually involves about 10 minutes on the longe line, a lot of walking with a bit of trotting then we do the in-hand walking, stopping, turning and setup excersices. I find as long as I keep him moving and turning and stopping and backing he can concentrate better. The stopping and standing is hard, his mind starts thinking of interesting things to do, that doesn't include standing in one spot.

I haven't been doing much work with him this winter because it has been COLD - and I don't do cold really well!!

Later this spring when I begin seriously fitting him, I will either pony him with Profit or longe him for 10 minutes at the trot. I will use a watch and time him for 5 minutes then reverse.

He is so big, both tall and heavy I don't want to do anything to overstress him.

You are so right, once you go through all the ground work exercises, when it comes time to ride they just ride off. I did the same thing with Profit you did with Lena, stepped on him one day and he rode like he was a mature horse that just hadn't been ridden in a couple years. Those horses are a pure joy and all that groundwork sure pays off!

Mrs Hook's Riding Log


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Arenadirt
Trainer

USA
670 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  12:22:53 PM  Show Profile  Visit Arenadirt's Homepage Send Arenadirt a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Mrs. H,

Thanks for the validation response - I don't have the experience to really know how well I did with Lena, and your description of Cruiser's behavior and attitude made me feel good. He's so MASSIVE! Is he going to do eventing or something? And his breeding? His conformation (esp the rear end) resembles some horses we've trained from the "Dash for Cash" line - big big "quarterbred" race horses. But Cruiser's head looks almost like an Arab... very pretty.

I likened riding those quarterbreds to driving an American muscle car from the 60s. Kit Carpenter (RIP) trained one of them (a son of DFC, named "Cash") to cut cattle. What a sight! 16.3 hands is just a wee bit large for a cutter, but Cash enjoyed it SO much. I saw his owner try to ride him on cattle and end up in the dirt. I rode him on cattle and very nearly met the same fate. Kit seemed to be the only one who didn't look like a rag doll trying to keep up with him. But I can guarantee that no cow ever tried to challenge that boy!

I hope it all goes as planned with your big beautiful Cruiser, and he can excel at something he enjoys. Sure sounds like you're giving him the best chance possible. And your mindfulness of the possible overstressing that can happen at that age puts YOU in exalted company IMHO, for the $.02 that's worth.

Edited by - Arenadirt on 02/14/2008 12:24:56 PM
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Mrs Hook
Trainer



Canada
862 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2008 :  8:11:25 PM  Show Profile  Visit Mrs Hook's Homepage Send Mrs Hook a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A.D.

Cruisers mother is a granddaughter of Triple Chick on top and Coy's Bonanza on the bottom. A really nice big mare. His father is Skip Zan Parr a son of Zan Parr Bar out an AQHA Champion Skipper W mare. Zan himself was an AQHA Champion, Superior Western Pleasure Horse and a roping horse. The Zan babies are incredibly smart and brave, which is a great combination as long as you listen to what they have to tell you. You cannot force those horses and you have to be aware they are always thinking.

Cruiser is going to be my All-Rounder. With his size he should be able to do well in the English classes and I think he has a strong enough top line to frame up and do western events as well. The only cattle events he will be able to do is the Team Penning - we have a stable down the road - because we just don't have access to any other cow events. He could probably do reining as well, but I am not sure I want to stress his hocks that much with all the sliding required. Maybe in a few years he may be my DE trail horse.

Profit and Cruiser both have Zan as a father. Profit's mother is a granddaughter of Goldseekers Bars out of a daughter of War Bond's Leo who was high point cutting horse of the nation in 1976 . He has so much cutting ability it is scary!! Someday I may get brave and show him a cow. He will track and cut, dogs and cats and pigeons - well anything that gets in front of him and moves.

Profit has the same big butt and small head so I think it must be a Zan characteristic. Profit inherited the big Skipper W jowls. They are both really slow, soft moving horses who can really run - if they want to - just most times they really can't be bothered.

Mrs Hook's Riding Log


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Arenadirt
Trainer

USA
670 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2008 :  11:17:15 AM  Show Profile  Visit Arenadirt's Homepage Send Arenadirt a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Mrs. H,

That's a heck of a pedigree. Perused some pics of Skip Zan Parr's other offspring and they all seem to have that thick build and pretty head. What a great line. Congratulations - you must be delighted.

Understand your reticence about reining - every year I agonize about the reining class in Versatility Ranch Horse. One year I put some semi-slider shoes on Seven, but neither he nor I was real happy with how they effected his ability with the working cow horse portion, which is in the same 6-minute class. Any more we don't practice those big sliding stops, just let him excel at what he does best (trail, cutting) and try for precision in the reining class rather than the speed drama that true reining horses display.

Edited by - Arenadirt on 02/15/2008 11:18:06 AM
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