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 Highline, picketline?
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NoahsArk
Advanced Rider



USA
153 Posts

Posted - 08/05/2006 :  12:23:22 PM  Show Profile Send NoahsArk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Great section by the way!! I have always used a stall, tied to trailer, or electric pens provided at camp grounds, but I have always wanted to know how to picket my horse. What do you all use? And how exactly is it done safely? How do you tie the rope from tree to tree? Above the head, or below?

Just thought I would get this section started, and this is one thing I have always wanted some info on.

Melissa
Rock-A-Way Pete: 1985-2006 My best partner.....I love you Pete!
O-Hi's Mountain Maggie: the new girl in town.

PaintGal
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
5300 Posts

Posted - 08/06/2006 :  9:00:28 PM  Show Profile Send PaintGal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I've never used a picket line but found an article that's very informative. It's a PDF file & you can download it here but I'd like to hear from those that high line their horses too.

Karen ~ Trails
&
Joe Paint Gelding
Paoli, IN


"My treasures do not sparkle or glitter, they shine in the sun and neigh in the night."



~~~~~~
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EZ2SPOT
Clinician

USA
3785 Posts

Posted - 08/06/2006 :  9:07:46 PM  Show Profile  Visit EZ2SPOT's Homepage Send EZ2SPOT a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Maybe OTW will see this & respond...as I understand it, she highlined for the first time on her recent camping trip!

I have a highline kit (rope, tree savers, knot eliminators), but have never used it.

EZ2SPOT
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NoahsArk
Advanced Rider



USA
153 Posts

Posted - 08/08/2006 :  01:03:57 AM  Show Profile Send NoahsArk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
They sell kits?? I havent seen them. I will check out that site PG.

Melissa
Rock-A-Way Pete: 1985-2006 My best partner.....I love you Pete!
O-Hi's Mountain Maggie: the new girl in town.
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hmeyer
Clinician



USA
2194 Posts

Posted - 08/08/2006 :  1:09:33 PM  Show Profile Send hmeyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have not yet used either highline or picketline on an overnight trip, just in a day ride area. But it looks to me like a highline would be the better, safer way to go. If done right, less chance of the horses getting tangled up in it. But here's the question I have... when using a highline, I've been told to tie them short, maybe eighteen inches lead rope from the highline. This would probably not allow them to lie down at night. I know horses can sleep without lying down, but do need, or prefer, some lie down time for deep sleep. How long can they go without lying down at night before they start to suffer from deep sleep deprivation? One night? Several nights? Weeks?

"You learn a thing a day, you store up smart" - Festus Haggen

"A manís soul canít be hidden,
From the creatures in his care." -
Hard Candy Cowboy by Debra Meyer


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puddleplasher
Clinician



USA
1296 Posts

Posted - 08/08/2006 :  6:29:59 PM  Show Profile  Visit puddleplasher's Homepage Send puddleplasher a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The way we've highlined for shows is to string a line (non-stretchy line, strung as tight as you can make it) between two trees using tree-savers -- there will always end up being some give in the line anyway, if it's more than a dozen or so feet in length. The height should be above the horses' ears so they don't rub on it -- one horse I knew gave himself a rope burn on the withers with a too-low line. I've heard varied advice on how long the leads should be -- short so they don't get tangled in the lead, or longer so they can feed. We tend to go for a lead that hangs within a foot of the ground so that feeding and watering is easier, but I wouldn't leave a horse unsupervised with a lead that long unless I was quite sure they were used to highlining and wouldn't panic or get caught up. Another reason for a shorter lead might be if you've got multiple horses along the line and you want to keep them from messing with each other.

'plash

Pepper sez: "Don't forget the horse!!"
'Plash's Ride Log
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candygirl
Tenderfoot

USA
14 Posts

Posted - 08/08/2006 :  7:01:30 PM  Show Profile Send candygirl a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm new to the forum but I've been camping with picket line. We tied between two trees with regular (5/8" I think) rope. The height was probably just above their ears. We used cross-ties (but as a lead, not a cross-tie) with quick release snaps. The quick release hooked to the knot eliminator and the bull snap was attached to the halter. The cross-tie was just long enough for the horses' heads to reach the ground and eat hay or out of a feed dish. I can't tell you whether or not they laid down. I don't know. As far as the horses getting their foot caught, they would have had to pick it up at least 6 inches off the ground and put it close to their head (about as likely as getting foot caught in own halter).


In the words of of Gene Autry....I'm back in the saddle again (after 20 years).
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mtn rider
Trainer



Canada
634 Posts

Posted - 08/08/2006 :  8:22:51 PM  Show Profile Send mtn rider a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I highline all the time. Its a great way to go. Gives the horses alot of freedom, mush more than being tied to a trailer, and IMO, much safer.

If you want to spend the money, kits are fine. All you really need is a good rope though. If you dont have tree savers, you can wrap the trees with someting to protect them, an tie around it.
Old cinchas make great tree savers too.
I have knott eliminators, with swivels in them, so horse can circle, without tightening up the lead.

If you learn your knots, you simply tie to one tree, and then use knots to create leverage, which you tighten your rope up with. The weakest of people can do it, using the correct knots.
Sorry I cant explain it better, the only knot I remember the name of is the butterfly knot.

I do tend to tie low, with horses I know.
These horses, know to give to pressure, are hobble trained, and bombproofed to ropes around thier legs, and dont fight restraint. Should one ever get a leg over, or get hung up somehow, they are very unlikely to panic, but rather stand there, waiting to be released.
If the horse is not one as described above, I tie short. Then you need to offer water, and feed earlier in the evening, so they have water before bed.

My friend Jim, runs a pack string, and does guided tours, has a base camp, and he takes tourists in to the backcountry. He rode solo from the mexican border, along the pacific crest trail, all the way to canada. Hes done many other rides, of a couple of months duration, in some of the wildest country in north america.
I value his opinion.
He is also the one who taught me to highline.
He said this is also the way he teaches all his young horses to tie. He finds it a very relaxing method for the horse (or mule), as the highline has a bit of give, and gives instant release (reward) when the horse gives to the pressure. Horse "teaches" itself.

Ride safe, return safe.

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Red Hawk
Clinician



USA
5092 Posts

Posted - 08/09/2006 :  12:03:46 PM  Show Profile Send Red Hawk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
When I have used a high-line, I do tie it high between two trees... usually as high as I can get it, and that's not all that high since I'm short. LOL I would try to put it up at least a foot higher than your horse's back. The reason for this is if you have your horse tied to it with the saddle on. I've seen a horse hook a high-line with a saddle horn and tear the whole thing up... or damage the saddle if the line doesn't break. So, if you have more than one horse on the line when & if this ever happens, you could have a real mess and quite a rodeo!

Because a high-line usually has some give to it, I would tie the horse's lead so it is about a foot off the ground. This will normally let the horse be able to touch the ground with his nose without hardly any slack in the lead. It wlll also give them enough lead that they ought to be able to lay down and rest if they are so inclined.

It's usually a good idea to check the high-line several times a day to make sure the horses haven't pulled too much on in and caused it to stretch or sag. This is when most problems will occur... when it is not checked frequently and it gets slack. It's best to keep it taut.

It's also wise to keep the horses spaced out so they cannot wrap the leads around each other and cause a mess. This can also lead to fights between horses depending on which ones get tangled up together. Not a good thing.

"God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses"
--Robert Browning

Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
-- Author Unknown
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OnTheWay
Clinician

1433 Posts

Posted - 08/12/2006 :  6:14:09 PM  Show Profile Send OnTheWay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I just tuned into DE after a LONG time out. Not any wear-out on DE (who could get worn out on THIS forum!) but I'm in a really busy time right now.

I would highly recommend picket-lining! Omigod, does it ever give you flexibility! Yes, I've only done it once, but in that case, nothing else would have worked. But I saw the advantages (and flexibility) to it then and there.

I did not buy a kit. I bought my picket-line setup from another website that MtnRider posted that has quite a great tutorial on picket-lining. (Once I figure out how to do the "shortcut" link, I will post it.) But basically, I bought 75 ft. of rope. It actually IS a stretchy rope at first. You have to break it in and remove its initial stretch. But it is GREAT rope. And it's purposely RED in color so that people can't miss it. I also bought two "tree huggers" (nylon, non-cutting straps) but they are designed so they won't slip down the tree. Another device (which I didn't use) is a "quick release" so in case something goes wrong, you don't have to mess with untying a rope. And also a "picket line tightener" which is a very simple, but rather ingenious device, meant to take the last bit of slack out of the picket line. Finally, instead of "quick knot" I bought two tie "thingies" that a human can move without loosening the picket line by sliding it with released tension, but a horse can't pull it, because unless you have a hand and fingers that can release the tension, it won't budge.

I didn't have Cloud on it long enough to see how she'd lie down on it (we were there too short a time for her to relax that much) but the rule of thumb is, have your tie line (from picket line to halter) about six inches off the ground. If a horse is kept on the picket line long enough, they figure out that they can lie down, but their face will be slightly raised off ground-level. (Once they get the hang of it, they position themselves so they have leeway.)

The weather was miserable, but Cloud did extremely well on the picket line. She was able to eat and drink, but no likelihood she could tangle herself up in her lead line.

I could have moved it in 4 directions. I could set it up anywhere where there are two tie-off places (including two trailers, or one trailer and a tree, or between two trees, or IF (God Forbid) I ever broke down on the freeway and there were two tie-off areas in shade off to the side, I COULD get Cloud protected and safe and in the shade, and then deal with it, without worrying that I have an animal sitting in a trailer baking in the hot sun.

I keep that picket line IN my trailer at all times. I think of it like part of my First Aid kit. Anywhere, anywhere, ANYWHERE I need to, I can get Cloud out of the trailer and tie her. And it's a very handy thing to have along in non-emergency situations.

Thanks MtnRdr, I knew nothing about these before you posted about them.


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jennifer4719
Tenderfoot



USA
6 Posts

Posted - 01/30/2007 :  11:42:56 PM  Show Profile Send jennifer4719 a Private Message  Reply with Quote
We use a highline too. We use one of those two inch wide nylon tow straps with the winch on it. We hook it to some tree savers and had a friend weld some rings with a bar down the middle and slid these rings on the nylon tow strap. The rings are able to be slid where ever you want them when the tow strap is loose and when the tow strap is tight those rings won't budge. We use big brass snaps to hook into these rings and then tie our lead ropes onto the snaps. The tow straps are very strong and do not stretch like a rope will. We can hang a full bale of hay on the tow strap with no problem.

Jennifer
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gentlehorse
Tenderfoot



5 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2007 :  12:13:17 PM  Show Profile Send gentlehorse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Typically you should tie your picket line 7 feet high and tight. Tree savers are good and you should use a Prussic Loop to tie your mule/horse to. This loop is moveable by you but not by the animal. The loop should be 7 feet from the tree and your lead rope just long enough to reach the ground. I run my lead rope up through the ring on the side of the halter to give a little more space away from hooves.
Hope this helps.
Doug

One can get in a car and see what MAN has made, one must get on a horse to see what GOD has made.
--unknown
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ILoveJoe
Clinician



USA
2499 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2007 :  1:17:06 PM  Show Profile Send ILoveJoe a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If your horse has never been tied to a picket line or a highline, should you acclimate them to it first?

Both of my horses stand tied, Joe also cross ties.





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gentlehorse
Tenderfoot



5 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2007 :  3:23:42 PM  Show Profile Send gentlehorse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I teach all my horses to stand tied and ground tie. I think one should watch there horses on a picket line the first few times to make sure all goe's well. Also as in trail riding you should picket horses close to each other that get along good together,
Doug

One can get in a car and see what MAN has made, one must get on a horse to see what GOD has made.
--unknown
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FtValleyPS
Tenderfoot

USA
4 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2007 :  6:48:15 PM  Show Profile Send FtValleyPS a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi folks, just a couple of thoughts on highlines and picket lines.

Not to be picky, but they're actually two different things. A high line is the rope stretched high that folks are talking about above, works great, and if properly strung and maintained can secure the animal while allowing it to be comfortable, too, even lie down. A lot of the keys to successful highlining are described above. I'd add or underline keeping it taut is key so a horse or mule can't step over it and get a wreck going. A tall, strong person can keep one adjusted properly fairly easily. Another option is referenced above, a tightener of some sort; when I'm truck camping I use a simple mechanical come along like you may use to pull a stuck vehicle out of mud; I attach it to the rope and tree and easily pull the line taut. In the backcountry I use a Dutchman or block and tackle knot in rope to tighten a picket line. Knotsavers or Elim-a-knots are great figure-eight shaped devices to use in-line along the rope to tie a horse onto, no pesky binding knot to untie when you're done.

A picket line is technically, I believe, a sort of rope fence, if I can describe it that way, about four feet or so tall, and stretched a distance across a series of posts, with the rope/line staked into the ground at both ends. This is the way the U.S. Cavalry and others used to tie their animals at night. While still used some, the highline is preferred by a lot of folks today camping with their animals, including for truck camping and backcountry (packing) use.

Another option is to secure an animal at night include a one-leg picket where a non-abrasive rope is tied around the pastern area and the other end to a pin in the ground with a swivel on the end so the rope doesn't bind up. I've tried this but prefer a highline.

Many highline kits available, Wyoming Outdoors has a good one, but I agree with folks above that once you see what a kit is, you may be able to easily put your own setup together.

I'd also highly advise highlining and such at home before you leave, practice, get the animal comfortable with it - they usually do great with it, adapt well, everything works out fine and everyone gets a good night's sleep.

There are several great backcountry packing books out there with a lot of good information on this stuff, including "Horse, Hitches and Rocky Trails" (Joe Back), "Packin' In On Mules and Horses" (Smoke Elser and Jerry Brown), "Horse Packing In Pictures" (Francis Davis), and others.

One last thing - I feel we should all practice Leave No Trace (LNT) principles with our animals, so we leave the land in as good a condition as we found it - or better, hopefully. If you go to leavenotrace.org, they have details, but as relates to this topic, it might mean moving your highline often enough that the vegetation and soils under the animals isn't permanently damaged. By practicing LNT we're setting a good example for both horse folks and others, and it shows we care. Thanks for hearing that little sermon ... :)

There's nothing better than camping with your stock!

John
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ILoveJoe
Clinician



USA
2499 Posts

Posted - 02/04/2007 :  7:14:08 PM  Show Profile Send ILoveJoe a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks for all your information. I will see if I can get my hands on those books through our library.

I have an area in the run in of the barn that I can make a highline and acclimate the boys.
Again
Thank you





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Hook
Trail Boss (Moderator)



Canada
6115 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2007 :  05:27:20 AM  Show Profile  Visit Hook's Homepage Send Hook a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gentlehorse

Typically you should tie your picket line 7 feet high and tight. Tree savers are good and you should use a Prussic Loop to tie your mule/horse to. This loop is moveable by you but not by the animal. The loop should be 7 feet from the tree and your lead rope just long enough to reach the ground. I run my lead rope up through the ring on the side of the halter to give a little more space away from hooves.
Hope this helps.
Doug



Hi Doug; Welcome to the forum. I think you will enjoy the company. Thanks for the pointers.

I have never went trail riding over night but when I go I think I will try the first ones in an area where I can return to my trailer to overnight. At his point I plan to make a small temporary corral for the horses.


Hook(ed)......on Horses

"The best things in life are nearest: Breath in your nostrils, light in your eyes, flowers at your feet, duties at your hand, the path of right just before you. Then do not grasp at the stars, but do life's plain, common work as it comes, certain that daily duties and daily bread are the sweetest things in life. " Author: Robert Louis Stevenson
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Hook
Trail Boss (Moderator)



Canada
6115 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2007 :  05:33:44 AM  Show Profile  Visit Hook's Homepage Send Hook a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by FtValleyPS

Hi folks, just a couple of thoughts on highlines and picket lines. There are several great backcountry packing books out there with a lot of good information on this stuff, including "Horse, Hitches and Rocky Trails" (Joe Back), "Packin' In On Mules and Horses" (Smoke Elser and Jerry Brown), "Horse Packing In Pictures" (Francis Davis), and others.

One last thing - I feel we should all practice Leave No Trace (LNT) principles with our animals, so we leave the land in as good a condition as we found it - or better, hopefully. If you go to leavenotrace.org, they have details, but as relates to this topic, it might mean moving your highline often enough that the vegetation and soils under the animals isn't permanently damaged. By practicing LNT we're setting a good example for both horse folks and others, and it shows we care. Thanks for hearing that little sermon ... :)

There's nothing better than camping with your stock!




Hi FtValleyPS;

Welcome to the forum. I'll have to track down one of those books. Thanks for posting.

BTW, I am curious how you chose you user name. If I expanded it I would guess Fort Valley Public School

Hook(ed)......on Horses

"The best things in life are nearest: Breath in your nostrils, light in your eyes, flowers at your feet, duties at your hand, the path of right just before you. Then do not grasp at the stars, but do life's plain, common work as it comes, certain that daily duties and daily bread are the sweetest things in life. " Author: Robert Louis Stevenson
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mtn rider
Trainer



Canada
634 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2007 :  10:12:50 AM  Show Profile Send mtn rider a Private Message  Reply with Quote
FtvalleyPS
You sound like a fellow bch member, are you? :)

Ride safe, return safe.

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FtValleyPS
Tenderfoot

USA
4 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2007 :  10:58:01 PM  Show Profile Send FtValleyPS a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi all,


ILoveJoe, although there are many books out ther eon packing and camping with horses and mules, I think you'll find these books to be good reads and very helpful and easy to follow.

Hook, the FtValleyPS is short for Fort Valley Pack Station; I live in Fort Valley, north of Flagstaff, Arizona, on the road to the Grand Canyon, and the place is called a pack station/Fort Valley Ranger Station. My horses would prefer it be called a spa .... :) ...... but, .....

Mtn, yes, I'm a Backcountry Horsemen member, too, Arizona Chapter; I think they're a great group, dedicated to keeping riding open on the public lands, educating riders and others about backcountry livestock use, and how we can use the backcountry in such a way that it's taken care of and remains for future generations.

Re the books, it's sort of neat how people familiar with backcountry use of stock come from all areas. Joe Back came from the midwest US and ended up as a boy in Wyoming, where he stayed the rest of his life. The drawings in his book are worth the price of the book, in my opinion. Smoke Elser came from the midwest US, too, Cincinatti, maybe, ended up in Montana where he ran an outfitting and guiding business for many years, still teaches packing. Francis Davis was from upstate New York, had a place called Five Acres where he taught stock packing to 4H groups and riding schools. The only reason I say all this is so folks anywhere can see that it doesn't matter where you are, you can apply many of the same principles to camp or pack your animals, and to enjoy them safely.

Thanks all, it's always interesting and fun talking about our equine friends, isn't it? I sure enjoy camping with them, and exloring new places with them, too.



John

Edited by - FtValleyPS on 02/05/2007 11:09:10 PM
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gentlehorse
Tenderfoot



5 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2007 :  7:20:53 PM  Show Profile Send gentlehorse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thanks Hook for the welcome; You might look on the web for horse camping sites. Some of the sites have corrals. The other thing I.ve heard of but never used is an portable electric fence line. You put up stakes and string a electric wire around them and the horses stay inside of it. I'll look for more information on this.
Doug
Check out portable fence
http://petsafe-warehouse.com/above_ground_electric_fences/portable.htm

One can get in a car and see what MAN has made, one must get on a horse to see what GOD has made.
--unknown

Edited by - gentlehorse on 02/06/2007 9:30:31 PM
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gentlehorse
Tenderfoot



5 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2007 :  7:35:16 PM  Show Profile Send gentlehorse a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Ftvalleyps; I live down the hill from you in Cornville. I lived in Flagstaff for many years. I've got my membership ready to send in to Back country horsemen.
Have a good one.
Doug

One can get in a car and see what MAN has made, one must get on a horse to see what GOD has made.
--unknown
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Hook
Trail Boss (Moderator)



Canada
6115 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2007 :  05:50:17 AM  Show Profile  Visit Hook's Homepage Send Hook a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by gentlehorse

Thanks Hook for the welcome; You might look on the web for horse camping sites. Some of the sites have corrals. The other thing I've heard of but never used is an portable electric fence line. You put up stakes and string a electric wire around them and the horses stay inside of it. I'll look for more information on this.
Doug
Check out portable fence
http://petsafe-warehouse.com/above_ground_electric_fences/portable.htm



Thanks for the Link GH. I am thinking I could just bring some "t"-bars and webbing and perhaps a battery powered fencer and that would work.

Hook(ed)......on Horses

"The best things in life are nearest: Breath in your nostrils, light in your eyes, flowers at your feet, duties at your hand, the path of right just before you. Then do not grasp at the stars, but do life's plain, common work as it comes, certain that daily duties and daily bread are the sweetest things in life. " Author: Robert Louis Stevenson
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mtn rider
Trainer



Canada
634 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2007 :  7:51:20 PM  Show Profile Send mtn rider a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I do both, at the same time.

If I use the portable fencer, I still like to highline inside it as well, for overnight. I have never ever had a problem with a properly set up highline. Electric fencers however, can and do fail, or horses simply get spooked and run through them.

Had range cattle run through one once too!
I sleep well, knowing my horse is going to be there in the morning when I get up.
What I use the fencer for, is a daytime corral, so they can graze and wander around, roll where they choose etc. Then onto the highline for overnight.

FtValleyPS
I am a canadian member of the BCHBC. (BackCountry Horsemen of British Columbia) I joined shortly after the first canadian chapter was formed here.

A friend of mine, drove to the mexican border, and rode the pacific crest trail back home to canada. Along the way he met some BCH members, and learned what BCH was all about. Once home in canada, he an 2 friends started the first chapter of BCH here.

Although we are not connected in any way (other than name) to the BCH of America, we began by adopting most of thier constitution. (why not, its great stuff!)We now have quite a few chapters over a large area.

Ride safe, return safe.

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hmeyer
Clinician



USA
2194 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2007 :  10:41:36 AM  Show Profile Send hmeyer a Private Message  Reply with Quote
mtn rider, that's a good idea to use both. I've also heard that the portable electric fence can help protect your horses that are tied by keeping out bears, wolves, dogs, etc.

"You learn a thing a day, you store up smart" - Festus Haggen

"A manís soul canít be hidden,
From the creatures in his care." -
Hard Candy Cowboy by Debra Meyer


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lovelltrng
Tenderfoot



12 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2008 :  09:41:46 AM  Show Profile Send lovelltrng a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I am excited to try the highline this summer on my camp trip.

Where you are is more important than where you've been, where you're going more important than where you are
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