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PaintGal
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
5300 Posts

Posted - 01/23/2006 :  08:07:53 AM  Show Profile Send PaintGal a Private Message
OTW, you ROCK!

but lets not confuse anyone with details.

Karen ~ Trails
&
Joe Paint Gelding
Paoli, IN


"My treasures do not sparkle or glitter, they shine in the sun and neigh in the night."



~~~~~~
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OnTheWay
Clinician

1433 Posts

Posted - 01/23/2006 :  09:56:29 AM  Show Profile Send OnTheWay a Private Message
Awwww, I was playing around, I hope I didn't offend anyone. Seriously, I can see where HCG is coming from in one standpoint. I do NOT know what the draw is to be able to ride a horse without a bit, but I have that itch myself! And I can tell you, there's something just irresistible about it. I keep flirting with that Dr. Cook Bitless Bridle, because... well, I don't know, I keep thinking about GaWaNi Pony Boy and all those beautiful pictures of him looking gorgeously natural wearing the Native American clothes, with crystal clear bubbling waterfalls behind him and his horse, as he gazes understandingly into his stead's eyes with deep commune... Riding bareback on the next page, maybe just a rope around her neck...

I also had that problem with Cloud grazing when I'm on her back but that's just a really bad habit to let a horse get into. Sheeesh, instead of fighting with just a will to go in a wrong direction or something, you're now setting up a fight with food itself, if not every urge in the world to feel entitled to it.

When she did it to me I tried tugging... about twice. That wore me out, her neck muscles are ten times stronger than my arms and all it did was frustrate me. I tried giving a snap to the reins when she was JUST thinking of lowering her head, and all it did was put off that persistence maybe 2 seconds, so I was doing a lot of snapping. I finally decided to revert back to ground zero, and one-rein her around in circles until she stopped. The head would lower again? A-hah, more circles. (I still don't think she figured out what was getting so unappealing about eating that grass right then, but frankly, I think it just became more hassle than it was worth.)

But alas, it seems that sometimes people say their control actually is limited without a bit, no matter how much they want that not to be the case. So, it seems to me that the best thing is getting a little of both worlds. Maybe first train the horse that it just doesn't turn out to be very profitable to try to graze with a rider on her back, and do it with a bit if that turns out to be the easiest for circling or whatever the chosen remedy. Meanwhile, though, work with her on non-grassy areas with the rope halter and see exactly where the control limitations are. And then if those don't look too bad, try it with the rope halter on a more "pre-programmed" horse and see if the rule translates. Who knows? Maybe it would.

But the more you like the idea of riding with a rope halter, I sure wouldn't waste desensitizing her to the available effective pressure from a rope halter over a battle as compelling as grazing. Seems any control issues from there would just be asking for a downhill battle from there.

HCG, I hope you don't get frustrated with this thread, maybe everybody did there for a minute. I'm still not clear on how you've been trying to stop her with the rope halter and where exactly you've found the weakness to be in using the rope halter. I haven't tried riding Cloud in one yet, but had planned to, just around the field, just to see how it is. I've read a lot of threads on the Dr. Cook bitless bridle, and some people swear by them. (They have more pressure than a rope halter.) But some people say their horse learned to pull through that just as easily as with a bit.
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Horsecrazygirl
Clinician



USA
2132 Posts

Posted - 01/23/2006 :  8:21:30 PM  Show Profile Send Horsecrazygirl a Private Message
Onmyway,Yes I am frustrated.And not just with this particular post!
I really don't like the bitless bridle (my opinion) Its leather and not as soft as I would like for my horse.

Everyone: No need to post anymore.I am trying to do that hay thing.So let me work on one thing at a time,then I'll let ya'll know.
But most people on other messages boards that I'm reg. with are not like you guys and gals...............which is better for me.

Paint: No I'm not working with an instructor.If I was I'd prolly ask him/her first.I simply can't afford such things. I just have the home study video and booklet package,But they don't list on what to do for trail riding.

Thanks for hopefully the last time!


"In the steady gaze of the horse shines a silent eloquence that speaks of love and loyalty, strength and courage. It is the window that reveals to us how willing is his spirit, how generous his heart."

"The horse, gives you the freedom from all life's challenges." H.Z.


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PaintGal
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
5300 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2006 :  07:37:23 AM  Show Profile Send PaintGal a Private Message
Sorry.... everytime you post you mention something that could be contributing to the problem. I hope the hay thing works for you but why spend a month working on that and maybe making progress when you could change tack and possibly solve the problem in a couple of days?

quote:
Onmyway,Yes I am frustrated.And not just with this particular post!
I really don't like the bitless bridle (my opinion) Its leather and not as soft as I would like for my horse.


"not as soft as I would like for my horse"??????

I will be the first to stand up against abuse but horses respond to PRESSURE. They move in such a way to release the pressure. The immediate release of the pressure is their reward which is why pressure works.

You should be able to grasp more than one idea at a time. I don't know why you get so upset when advice is offered especially since it's YOUR health that might suffer if you continue to use ineffective equipment.

quote:
But most people on other messages boards that I'm reg. with are not like you guys and gals...............which is better for me.


TRANSLATION: Continue to work with the Parelli halter even though you have no control and have been bucked off. Neither you or your horse can get hurt.

That's what you want to hear and anything that you read that doesn't fit upsets you.

Good luck and I hope you can come back & let us know how successful you've been.

Karen ~ Trails
&
Joe Paint Gelding
Paoli, IN


"My treasures do not sparkle or glitter, they shine in the sun and neigh in the night."



~~~~~~
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FLOOPER
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
2493 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2006 :  10:26:44 AM  Show Profile  Visit FLOOPER's Homepage Send FLOOPER a Private Message
HCG...hmmm...sounds to me if you won't go away from the rope halter to some sort of a bit, you are going to continue to have the same problem. You might want to look at one of these:

The Anti Buck Strap

Infinity Acres presents the "Anti Buck". We created this to help keep a horse from getting his head down to buck. We are working on getting it patented. It doesn't hurt the horse and it doesn't "keep" a horses head up. The horse can still turn his head normally and walk, trot, and lope. It is attatched so the horse can move at his normal head set. This is great on horses that try to eat grass while being ridden. We use it on our kids' pony as she likes to snatch grass while being ridden. The Anti Buck keeps the horse from doing this and keeps our kids' hands from getting sore. This also keeps your kids safe. We use it daily on the horses we train and gives us peace of mind as we are safer. Also horses try to buck less when they realize they can't get their head down.

Sounds just like what you need. Well, actually, following all the advice you got here previously is just what you need. But if you can't solve the problem, who knows, maybe this would work. Scroll down the page when you get there, and you can see pictures of it on a horse.

http://www.infinityacres.com/anti%20buck/listingab.html





Flooper

"I'm a man. I can change. If I have to. I guess."
The Man's Prayer from the Red Green Show

Edited by - FLOOPER on 01/24/2006 10:35:14 AM
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fracturedbones
Clinician



3424 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2006 :  12:51:46 PM  Show Profile  Visit fracturedbones's Homepage Send fracturedbones a Private Message
Floops, never heard of such a thing...and boy, it looks complicated for me! I'd go towards bit and behavior HCG...and a good dose of Clinton Respect. Don't think I could figure out that buck strap fast enough...probably hang myself and the horse in the process!!!

Looked like they had a tie down on that horse in the pic....so neither end can go beyond neutral??
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FLOOPER
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
2493 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2006 :  1:00:56 PM  Show Profile  Visit FLOOPER's Homepage Send FLOOPER a Private Message
I think they had that horse tied down every which way. I actually put it on here more as a joke than a serious suggestion! But who knows...maybe it works...I dunno. It's just something I came across one day when I was recovering from my broken hip, and bookmarked it because I thought it was funny!!

The actual device itself looks pretty simple...it's just that they had so much other crap on the horse you can't tell what is what. From what I can see...it's just a V-strap--one side of V hooks onto a halter on the left, the other side of the V hooks onto the halter on the right...then the straight strap back from the V loops around the saddle horn....kinda like just extending the halter back to the saddle horn so horse can put head down all the way. But I think if I wanted one, I could make one for a lot less!!!

Be my luck that the horse would not only still buck...but would break the saddle horn off and I'd need to buy a new saddle from Chuck. Hey...Chuck...there's a marketing idea...sell these to people and then sell them a new saddle when theirs break!!

Flooper

"I'm a man. I can change. If I have to. I guess."
The Man's Prayer from the Red Green Show

Edited by - FLOOPER on 01/24/2006 1:06:40 PM
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Budman
Advanced Rider



USA
230 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2006 :  1:21:10 PM  Show Profile  Visit Budman's Homepage Send Budman a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Horsecrazygirl
[
Paint: No I'm not working with an instructor.If I was I'd prolly ask him/her first.I simply can't afford such things. I just have the home study video and booklet package,But they don't list on what to do for trail riding.

Thanks for hopefully the last time!





I read a book once about flying airplanes, think I'll mowsie down to the airport and rent a plane. Why waste money on flying lessons!!!

Just my $0.02, Budman
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Termite
Advanced Rider

369 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2006 :  1:31:29 PM  Show Profile Send Termite a Private Message
Flooper
I would call that rig a shortened version of a side check rein used on a draft harnes adapted to work on a saddle. I use an overhead check rather than a side check in most of my harness.
Termite
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FLOOPER
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
2493 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2006 :  2:06:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit FLOOPER's Homepage Send FLOOPER a Private Message
Termite...for most of my horses, I've used an insufficient funds check!!

Flooper

"I'm a man. I can change. If I have to. I guess."
The Man's Prayer from the Red Green Show
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Termite
Advanced Rider

369 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2006 :  2:11:58 PM  Show Profile Send Termite a Private Message
May be that was your problem with Vern and he bounced you.
Termite
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FLOOPER
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
2493 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2006 :  2:40:30 PM  Show Profile  Visit FLOOPER's Homepage Send FLOOPER a Private Message
ROFLMBFAO!!!!!!!!!!! Ya still got it, Termite!!

Flooper

"I'm a man. I can change. If I have to. I guess."
The Man's Prayer from the Red Green Show
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Horsecrazygirl
Clinician



USA
2132 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2006 :  7:06:02 PM  Show Profile Send Horsecrazygirl a Private Message
I'd just like to say that my last post was to be the last of the topic here.

No more posting for me on this one!

Bye all!
Have fun comparing and complaining!


"In the steady gaze of the horse shines a silent eloquence that speaks of love and loyalty, strength and courage. It is the window that reveals to us how willing is his spirit, how generous his heart."

"The horse, gives you the freedom from all life's challenges." H.Z.


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OnTheWay
Clinician

1433 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2006 :  7:44:30 PM  Show Profile Send OnTheWay a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Horsecrazygirl

I'd just like to say that my last post was to be the last of the topic here.

No more posting for me on this one!

Bye all!
Have fun comparing and complaining!





HCG I don't think anyone was complaining except you. It's very sad that you saw fit to end this way with people who have been trying to help you. I just hope that you have (or meet) people around you who know something about horses; and further, that if they tell you something you don't want to hear, you'll get over being this defensive, enough to listen to them before deciding they must be against you personally. And until then, if you persist in trying to ride that horse with just a rope halter when it's been proven that you can't even stop her from grazing (let alone running away with you if s/he gets a mind to), for heaven's sake, wear a helmet and a padded vest, and stay on that soft grass. If you have further questions and truly, really want answers, I'm sure the experienced people here who've been trying to help you will do so again. No one wants to see someone getting hurt. I think that's pretty obvious by now, but who knows at this point.
Best of luck to you!
Carol
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