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hank635
Tenderfoot

USA
17 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2006 :  6:10:04 PM  Show Profile  Visit hank635's Homepage Send hank635 a Private Message
I bought a six yr old quarter horse gelding who I have only had for about one month. When I first rode him he was fine then when I bought him and got him home the first time I got on him he bucked me off then I got back on him and he still would not do what I asked of him. I gave him some time to get used to the home about 2 weeks and then I got back on him and he was fine for the first couple of days. Then just today I got on him and we got about 100 yards from the barn and he stopped and just started backing up towards the barn and I hit him with my spurs just barly and he through me off hard. What should I had done at that point to correct him? The pas owner said he used to ride him with spurs. Another thing is what do I do to stop him from continually backing up when he does not want to go anywhere. When he bucked me off I got myself back togather and took off the spurs and got back on him he didn't buck me off but he would not go in the direction that I wanted him to go and he would just keep backing up even when I kicked him hard.

FLOOPER
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
2493 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2006 :  8:10:46 PM  Show Profile  Visit FLOOPER's Homepage Send FLOOPER a Private Message
Keep him backing up good and fast until he gets sick of backing up and decides maybe going forward isn't so bad afterall.

Flooper

"I'm a man. I can change. If I have to. I guess."
The Man's Prayer from the Red Green Show
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Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2006 :  11:58:31 PM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
Also circle him. It sounds like he is barn sour. Have you talked to the person you bought him from? That is normally a good first step if you can contact them.

The point is to get the going forward but that doesn't mean it has to be straight ahead. If he doesn't want to go forward then circle him. His feet are still going forward but you are also controling where they go and that is the key. Circle both ways, work him closer to home and then farther away, closer and farther way keeping up the circles. It's harder for a horse to refuse if you are circling then if you are just trying to go forward. It is also harder for them to buck and rear.

Of course you need to make sure the saddle fits and that the bit is correct for him. Any pain issues need to be fixed first. Then you can work on the barn sourness. Get the help of a trainer so that it goes faster and smoother for the two of you. Must easier to fix a problem when you know how to fix it.

Did the seller say anything about this?

It's also best to get them under control with basic work then to use head straight out. Before you hit the point where he is going to act up circle, work on turning, going towards and away from home. In stead of the goal being to go on a trail ride it needs to be to make his safe area bigger but also to gain control no matter how far you are from home. You do that by working on Control close to home and then spreading the area out larger by doing the same things a little farther and a littler farther so that his whole mind is on you and what you are asking, not on how far is he. Before you or he knows it you are farther from home then you thought BUT he is listening and under control.
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hank635
Tenderfoot

USA
17 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2006 :  08:31:37 AM  Show Profile  Visit hank635's Homepage Send hank635 a Private Message
What do I need to when he starts bucking besdides just falling off of him? Do I need to beat him senseless with the reins when I fall off. He also has a bad problem with throwing his head all over when I pullback on the reins? Also as far as turning him in a circle he did not want to go even when I kicked him hard with my feet.
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PaintGal
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
5300 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2006 :  10:23:04 AM  Show Profile Send PaintGal a Private Message
Beating him isn't going to solve anything. You need to figure out why he's bucking. There may be a physical reason so you should have him thoroughly checked out by a competent vet. Make sure your tack isn't pinching or jabbing him so check the underside of the saddle and the fit at the withers. Make sure the girth isn't pinching him.

The head tossing/throwing maybe a result of dental problems so have his teeth floated when the vet checks him over. What type of bit are you using? How much pressure on the reins are you using and are you releasing the pressure at the appropriate time? How tight is the curb strap?

Many people use a harsh bit thinking that it will give them more control but it can cause a lot of problems and you still won't have control of your horse.

What gait are you in when he bucks? Do you lunge him before riding? What & how much are you feeding him?

Karen ~ Trails
&
Joe Paint Gelding
Paoli, IN


"My treasures do not sparkle or glitter, they shine in the sun and neigh in the night."



~~~~~~
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hank635
Tenderfoot

USA
17 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2006 :  10:47:30 AM  Show Profile  Visit hank635's Homepage Send hank635 a Private Message
The reason he bucked his because I hit him with the spurs and least thats what I believe he did it for. And as for his head throughing he did it when he would stop and did not want to go in a certain direction or he didn't want to cross a small puddle of water or just any place he felt he just didn't want to go.
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Red Hawk
Clinician



USA
5092 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2006 :  11:16:19 AM  Show Profile Send Red Hawk a Private Message
I totally agree with PG & Stormie.

If you find out that the horse doesn't have any physical problems and the tack is fitting him correctly, I'd go back to some basic ground work to get him to yield and flex to bit pressure. It sounds to me that his head tossing is his way of not letting you control his head with the bit. This is not saying to go to a stronger bit or use more muscle on your present bit, but to teach him to give his head to the slightest pressure you may apply to the reins. To do this, you will have to start with either just a halter & lead or with a mild snaffle bit and do a lot of work getting him to do lateral and vertical flexing and giving to the bit from the ground... and then advance that to the saddle, and then the walk, the trot, and eventually, the canter. Make sure he will do it every time you ask in the earlier steps and slower gaits before proceeding to anything more difficult. You must have total control of him giving to the bit pressure from the ground before proceeding to doing it from the saddle. He must do it from the saddle before doing it at the walk, etc.

Circling, as Stormie suggested, is your best choice for gaining control of him when he tries to back or buck. Another thing to remember is that a horse cannot buck unless he can get his head down. So, watch and feel what your horse is doing, when working around him or riding him, and try to anticipate so you can catch him before he gets into the unwanted behavior. The earlier you can catch him at it, the quicker you can keep him from doing it in the first place. A horse that's going to buck will sometimes bunch their back up under the saddle. It'll feel like you are sitting with a big ball under the saddle... usually the back of the saddle will rise up under you and you'll feel like you're riding downhill. As soon as you feel something like this, start circling him. Same thing with backing up. He will probably bring his hind legs forward so he can balance himself to back. You will feel a shortening of his body. Again, start circling him then instead of waiting for that first step back. The quicker you can catch him at it, the easier it'll be to correct.

Actually, if this was MY horse, I'd probably sell him and look for something easier to handle... but that's just my opinion. Otherwise, I'd send him to a professional trainer who knows how to catch this horse in the act before the horse even knows what he's doing. I've seen a pro trainer do this with my mare and was totally amazed! There was no way I could've correct her the way he did. In this case, it takes a real feel for horses and understanding their body language to the point the trainer is practically reading the horse's mind.

"God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses"
--Robert Browning

Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
-- Author Unknown
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fracturedbones
Clinician



3424 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2006 :  1:28:29 PM  Show Profile  Visit fracturedbones's Homepage Send fracturedbones a Private Message
Welcome Hank.

Been there with same problem after purchasing a new horse and transporting him. Push button on trial at seller's ranch, nightmare after I got him, wouldn't move, tried whooping him and got the bucks and rears and still feet plant many times. Did better with a group of horses. Didn't know enough about horses at the time. (and still learning). Will always be a question for me, if I knew more re: horse behavior and worked with him, maybe he would have been a keeper? Other side of the coin, he was supposedly dead broke push button. Guess that only applied if he stayed at sellers ranch??

My take on this: Could be a number of things. Upset over move and may need time to settle. Buddy sour. He's got your number and maybe need to establish leadership going back to round pen, then try to ride in enclosed area, see how he does. Maybe venture out with a buddy if that goes ok. Or try going solo away from barn, return, go away again, return. Could he have been tranquilized? Change in feed? Check tack/vet check. Has horse ever been trailored off before?

Assuming things were ok when you tried him before purchase. Do you have any agreement on return/trial? Bummer when you think you are buying a broke take-off-in=the-sunset horse...and he ain't that. Sounds like going back to ground work basics (to be safe), establishing leader, trust, finding out what he knows is in order.
If you don't want to do that, I'd try and get my $$ back. Hopefully no broken bones yet....
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PaintHorses
Beginning Rider



USA
68 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2006 :  1:28:32 PM  Show Profile  Visit PaintHorses's Homepage Send PaintHorses a Private Message
I agree with everyone too. I had a horse who would do the same thing, barn sour was one thing I knew had to be fixed. But doing the flexing to make him supple on both sides should help with the head tossing. He probably thinks bucking you off will make you leave him alone, even though you get back on, once you let a horse get away with something they will keep doing it until it gets worse and worse. My mare took me off a 6 foot wooden bridge backwards into 2.5 foot of water, once we checked her out and I got over being mad as a wet hen, I got back on her and rode her home 3 miles SOAKING WET. I tought her about bridges with a wooden walk over and now she is fine. I do a TON of ground work with a horse with issues that you are talking about your horse. You can never do enough ground work!
Good Luck!

Dixidoe
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Boots
Beginning Rider



USA
72 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2006 :  10:38:52 PM  Show Profile  Visit Boots's Homepage Send Boots a Private Message
I'd say your gelding has lots of "holes" in his training. What you have on the ground is what you have in the saddle. Lots of good advice here - yes, go back to the basics - you'll have to work on fixing those holes. If the seller is of no help...is there a good local trainer that would be willing to give you some direction?

Boots

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tell me, and I forget. Teach me, and I may remember. Involve me, and I learn. Ben Franklin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Truth is not determined by a majority vote.
- Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger
(Now Pope Benedict XVI)

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hank635
Tenderfoot

USA
17 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2006 :  8:28:32 PM  Show Profile  Visit hank635's Homepage Send hank635 a Private Message
Thanks for all the good advice but I still haven't hear any body tell me what I can do to stop him from the bucking. When he does it how do I correct him to where he will stop? And also with him continually backing up I have tried to turn his head in a circle but he just will stand there and not move.
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Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2006 :  8:48:54 PM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
I think the best thing would be for you to get a trainer or instructor that can help you.

"also with him continually backing up I have tried to turn his head in a circle but he just will stand there and not move."

This is why you have to start with ground work. Get him listening to you on the ground. Teach him to disengage his hindquarters. get his mind on you and listening to you. Then before you even try to head anywhere when you get on him make him disengage his hindquarters, give his head and get that mind on you.

When he gets stuck with his feet glued to the ground what do you do? Just pull his head around? Do you use your legs at all?

"I still haven't hear any body tell me what I can do to stop him from the bucking. When he does it how do I correct him to where he will stop? "

BEFORE he starts to buck, when he starts to drop his head give him a light jerk up on one rein so that he finds out that you aren't going to let him drop that head and then disengage those hindquarters, get him moving around in a small circle, get him moving but under control. If he is bucking a jerk on the reins can also help.


A trainer would be much better and safer for you and the horse.

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Boots
Beginning Rider



USA
72 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2006 :  11:25:27 PM  Show Profile  Visit Boots's Homepage Send Boots a Private Message
Stormie is right, but IMHO, I would not ride him at all until you have him responding more solidly for you on the ground. There is no point in trying to fix a problem from the saddle when it really begins BEFORE you even step into the stirrup. There are tons of things to do from the ground to prepare him for saddle work -- AND to get the buck out of him. Groundwork is the key. It's hard to explain it all here, so that's why it's an excellent suggestion to find a GOOD trainer....one that doesn't skip the groundwork part of training. Don't go to anyone whose answer is a bigger bit and more gadgets....a quick fix is never a substitute for true training. Let us know how things are going for you and your boy.

Boots

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tell me, and I forget. Teach me, and I may remember. Involve me, and I learn. Ben Franklin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Truth is not determined by a majority vote.
- Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger
(Now Pope Benedict XVI)

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PaintHorses
Beginning Rider



USA
68 Posts

Posted - 02/17/2006 :  12:43:10 AM  Show Profile  Visit PaintHorses's Homepage Send PaintHorses a Private Message
The horse sounds like he is bullheaded for starters, and is trying to intimidate/test you. That could be one reason for his constant resistance. You can look online for trainers in your area that could give you some help or call around for one. Horses can tell if you are apprehensive and can pick up on little "vibes" from the rider. He'll keep doing it as long as he thinks he has a way, I agree with the other posts about checking tack, if he rides ok sometimes and then just locks up for no valid reason there might be some tack issues, having a vet check him to see if he has a physical problem would be wise too. I'd work with him as much as possible one on one to get his respect, he might not be used to your commands and getting mixed signals. That all comes back to getting a trainer to help out so you can see what they do and then transfer his respect to you. Most reputable trainers will have you work with them, show you what to do hands on so the horse will know that YOU are the ALPHA and will respect you when it's all said and done. I know when I was training I always had the owners there when possible so they saw what to do and I had them do the same. But can't stress enough about ground work, horses hate work that to them is BORING, so they will eventually realize that if they want a break they need to listen to you, and also a horse needs to know that you are his "safe place" and then will want to please. My husband's 5 yr old gelding is the same way, he is sweet and quiet as a mouse on the ground and I can ride him to the left and straight forever, but try to turn him right and he'll rear up so bad he'll fall on you or buck so hard he'll send you into orbit, so he is going to a trainer in GA, my hip, knee and L4 and L5 vertabrae can't take it anymore! Sorry if I am rambling LOL, just trying to give some notes of what I've been through over the years. Hope you can get him worked out Hank...Good luck

Dixidoe
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Hook
Trail Boss (Moderator)



Canada
6115 Posts

Posted - 02/17/2006 :  06:12:57 AM  Show Profile  Visit Hook's Homepage Send Hook a Private Message
Hank.
This horse needs some Professional Training or a least a few rides by an experienced knowlegable horse person. I would reccommend that he be sent to a trainer for evaluation and get an honest opinion of his suitability for you. Do not put up with a horse that is not responding to you. Life is way to short to put up with an unruly horse and risking being seriously injured, disabled or worse. Accidents happen but an inexperienced person trying to ride a bucking horse is really not safe.

Hook(ed)......on Horses

"The best things in life are nearest: Breath in your nostrils, light in your eyes, flowers at your feet, duties at your hand, the path of right just before you. Then do not grasp at the stars, but do life's plain, common work as it comes, certain that daily duties and daily bread are the sweetest things in life. " Author: Robert Louis Stevenson
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Countryboy1958
Tenderfoot



1 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2006 :  3:14:03 PM  Show Profile  Visit Countryboy1958's Homepage Send Countryboy1958 a Private Message
Hank, almost everyone has told you how to fix this bucking issue. First go back to the basic ground work and get the hores to give to the bit, give his head, and hind quarters. By doing this your are gaining trust and respect of the horse and bonding with him as a new friend. Then saddle him up and see if he still gives his head and moves his hind quarters, then walk him in a round pin or a smaller area then go through the different gaits. If the horse shows no attempt to buck, place a 25 foot rope around his flank area, and let him start walking, you holding on to the end of the rope, put very little pressure on the rope, this may or may not cause him to start bucking, if he starts to buck hold slight pressure on him until he starts to stop then release the pressure, keep doing this until he stops bucking. Then get on him in the round pen and see if he gives his head and move his hind quarters for you, then start walking him around make him give his head, then slowing go thru the gaits. Then if all is going good move to a bigger pen then final go for a ride, hope this helps. By you always getting bucked off, the hores is learning thats this is his easy way out of work. ABOVE ALL NOT BE MEAN TO THE HORSE, AND TRY UNDERSTAND WHY HE IS DOING WHAT HE IS DOING. If this does not work, BOTH you and him need to a trainer. If this does not work maybe you and this horse was just not ment for each other. Good luck and happy trails.

May we all have safe rides as GOD lets us ride around in his back yard.
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Western Horsewoman
Tenderfoot

USA
18 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2006 :  8:25:14 PM  Show Profile  Visit Western Horsewoman's Homepage Send Western Horsewoman a Private Message
I'm going to start sounding like a broken record, but I REALLY believe in equine massage.

Most horse behavior problems are a result of PAIN. Until you relieve the pain--you can't train. You have some excellent suggestions here from the other folks in the forum on starting with groundwork, going back to basics, checking your tack, etc. Start by eliminating the pain factor, then apply the rest of these great suggestions.

Vets are okay, but the ones in our area are so busy, they don't always listen very well or check things out as well as they should.

I would definitely have his teeth checked out thoroughly (as in, have him sedated and have a professional equine dentist check him out). Have a qualified farrier check his feet. Have a equine massage therapist and/or equine chiro give him treatments (I'm partial to equissage--see www.rangeofmotionequine.com).

You create pain and behavior problems by getting "physical" with your horse. Please don't.

It may sound like money and time to implement these suggestions--and it is. But if you end up with a horse that you have a bond with, that trusts you and you trust to do what you want and you feel safe with...that's worth more than all the money in the world to me.

"This woman's place is in the saddle"
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Hook
Trail Boss (Moderator)



Canada
6115 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2006 :  06:15:12 AM  Show Profile  Visit Hook's Homepage Send Hook a Private Message
Mrs Hook is also a confirmed beliver in Equine Dentistry, Massage, Accupuncture, Chiropractise and Cranial Sacral theraphy for horses. We have used all of them with good success where indicated.

Our main conclusion is a good nutionally balanced diet, regular worming and exercise is the key to keeping the vet bills down by keeping the immune system strong.

Hook(ed)......on Horses

"The best things in life are nearest: Breath in your nostrils, light in your eyes, flowers at your feet, duties at your hand, the path of right just before you. Then do not grasp at the stars, but do life's plain, common work as it comes, certain that daily duties and daily bread are the sweetest things in life. " Author: Robert Louis Stevenson
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