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 Dye transfer problem- HELP!
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Tracie
Tenderfoot



USA
6 Posts

Posted - 01/23/2006 :  12:36:59 AM  Show Profile  Visit Tracie's Homepage Send Tracie a Private Message
I purchased very nice Longhorn saddle nearly 3yrs ago and am still having a problem with dye transfer from the black seat. Is there anything I can apply to the suede seat to seal in the color? I am fed up with the rear of my jeans being ruined.

Thanks!
Tracie

PS- (I have contacted the manufacturer...they told me to contact the dealer. No luck getting a call back from the dealer.)

OnTheWay
Clinician

1433 Posts

Posted - 01/23/2006 :  02:15:35 AM  Show Profile Send OnTheWay a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Tracie

I purchased very nice Longhorn saddle nearly 3yrs ago and am still having a problem with dye transfer from the black seat. Is there anything I can apply to the suede seat to seal in the color? I am fed up with the rear of my jeans being ruined.

Thanks!
Tracie

PS- (I have contacted the manufacturer...they told me to contact the dealer. No luck getting a call back from the dealer.)



I'd call back the manufacturer and ask them who dyed the leather they used in manufacturing their saddle. Was it the dealer?
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Chuck
Forum Admin



USA
1265 Posts

Posted - 01/23/2006 :  07:01:02 AM  Show Profile  Visit Chuck's Homepage Send Chuck a Private Message
I don't know of a product to prevent the die from bleeding. After 3 years, it will be difficult to get either the manufacturer or dealer to take any action. The materials (other than the tree) usually only carry a 30 day guarantee.

Have you considered a bum-pad or other seat covering?

Chuck

Horse Saddle Shop

http://www.horsesaddleshop.com
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Tracie
Tenderfoot



USA
6 Posts

Posted - 01/23/2006 :  3:25:50 PM  Show Profile  Visit Tracie's Homepage Send Tracie a Private Message
I have used a bum pad but it just irks me to no end that this is still occurring. Plus I have started showing on the beginner level & I don't want to use the pad...

I LOVE this saddle- it is a Longhorn 445. It took me forever to find this particular saddle. The seat still leaves an oily residue on my clothes. I wish I could just seal it somehow. I am annoyed that I can't get any advice from the manuf. or the dealer on how to handle this. I don't want to send it back to them or a replacement saddle- I just want them to stand by their product and tell me how to remedy the situation.

Thanks for your replies!

quote:
Originally posted by Chuck

I don't know of a product to prevent the die from bleeding. After 3 years, it will be difficult to get either the manufacturer or dealer to take any action. The materials (other than the tree) usually only carry a 30 day guarantee.

Have you considered a bum-pad or other seat covering?

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OnTheWay
Clinician

1433 Posts

Posted - 01/23/2006 :  6:46:19 PM  Show Profile Send OnTheWay a Private Message
Tracie, one question. Have you raised this issue with either the manufacturer or the dealer prior to 3 years? If so, then that's a whole different approach than if you haven't. In short, ideally you would have copies of correspondence or some idea of dates when you were trying to get a resolution to it. If so, then a letter to the manufacturer with a copy to the dealer shown would be in order, stating that you are STILL having this problem. I'd include that otherwise, you really like the saddle and you're not after trading it in on a "new one" or anything of that nature. But that you have a really valid problem you are sure they can sympathize with -- you're ruining your clothes. I'd include that you want to use it in competition so workaround remedies not only won't work, but won't reflect very well on their product either.

Ask them to put their brains on it and see if they can help you analyze what things might fix this problem once and for all. This is non-confrontational, non-blaming, it speaks well of their product otherwise, but genuinely asks for some much needed help.

Now I'd love to stop right there, but what if you haven't for some reason raised this issue with them in all this time. Well, I'd do the same thing. Acknowledge that you really like the saddle, so you've been putting up with it in hopes that the oil would work its way out once and for all. But that it hasn't happened. Again, reiterate that you're not looking for a free replacement (remove the threat) but that you feel you've gone the extra mile in putting up with it for quite some time now, and you're out of ideas, so at this point feeling that your only alternative is to ask for their attention on it enough to suggest what could be causing it and what you, as a consumer, can do on your own. Or if they have a way to seal it, you'd be glad to send it in with great appreciation for their expert help.

Again, I'd send it to the manufacturer and with a copy to the dealer. Present yourself as a non-complainer, but someone with a really valid problem. The only thing you're asking for is some help on a weird problem with a product that you bought from them.

You now have the maker and one of their dealers mutually aware that the other has been equally informed, and hopefully they will communicate on it and work out between them a route for a mutual customer to take with the least amount of inconvenience. If you only deal with one or the other, it's just too easy for them to not take you seriously and Susie Q who answers the phone can pass the buck rather than deal with it. I'd address your letter to a higher up in both the manufacturer's ranks and the dealer's ranks.

If you get nowhere (which would surprise me after a letter w/cc to dealer has been written) then you can consider your next step, such as letting them know you haven't received any suggestions from either of them, so the only thing you feel you can do is pose the question on some popular equestrian forums and see if anyone else has had this problem. But I'd sure start with a written letter direct to the sources first. Phone calls are easy to ignore. Letters of concern with reasonable requests for help aren't so much so. Sometimes you can get blown off by an employee who answers the phone but when you direct a letter to someone in a higher position, things get taken way more seriously.
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Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2006 :  02:06:08 AM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
If nothing else you could have the seat replaced. It would cost but it would solve the problem.
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Chuck
Forum Admin



USA
1265 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2006 :  06:52:10 AM  Show Profile  Visit Chuck's Homepage Send Chuck a Private Message
quote:

If nothing else you could have the seat replaced. It would cost but it would solve the problem.



Unfortunately, replacing the seat is the most difficult part to replace, if you are to have it done properly. It is harder and usually more expensive than replacing the tree.

If this has been happening ever since you bought the saddle, why didn't you take it to the tack store right away? Three years of use is very hard to explain away when the warranty on a saddle is usually only 30 days.

Chuck

Horse Saddle Shop

http://www.horsesaddleshop.com
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OnTheWay
Clinician

1433 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2006 :  07:51:59 AM  Show Profile Send OnTheWay a Private Message
Even if it's three years hence, and even if she didn't complain or act on it until now, I would think the manufacturer would STILL be willing to give her suggestions how she might proceed. I mean, just as a matter of courtesy. True, by this time (assuming no complaints have been raised in the past) for all they know she's oiled it with something weird. However, I would imagine if she's having this problem (and hasn't put anything on it to cause it herself) then it doesn't seem likely this is the first they've heard of the problem. Whether they'd want to mess with it after this much time as a matter of customer service or not, up for grabs.

Tracie, long shot. My farrier is also a saddle maker. It started as a hobby, but people order custom made saddles from him and he has a year's waiting list. They are apparaently high end saddles, yadda yadda. I've never seen one, but this is all I know. However, in talking about leather preservation, he said there's a product that he swears by. It goes by the unlikely name "Miracle Juice." It's made by a saddle making company in the Carolinas, and while one would think it would be distributed nationally, apparently it's not. They make it themselves and they use it themselves. They sell it if you order it.

Chris says there are really super properties to it. We were talking about an old western saddle I'm borrowing that's been used and abused, it has some ground in dirt and who knows what else from sitting out in a barn for years. He said something about moisture getting into the leather, and said this stuff will literally "squeeze water" out of leather. He said it's the best treatment he's ever found for leather, bar none. Now I have NO clue whether it would do anything for you, but the company is the kind where you could email them the problem you're having and as them their opinion what you might do. And mention this product they have and ask if they think somehow this would take care of your problem.

Here's link to their website. Then click on "Tips." The product is mentioned there. There's also email contact information. I don't see what you could possibly have to lose by contacting them, describing the problem and asking if they've ever heard of this problem or if they think this solution would work for you.

http://www.caldwellsaddle.com/frameset.htm

Click on "Tips" on the left bar menu.
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Tracie
Tenderfoot



USA
6 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2006 :  10:03:55 AM  Show Profile  Visit Tracie's Homepage Send Tracie a Private Message
I couldn't take it back right away- I bought it online from a dealer in Iowa- I live in WA state. I got it from this dealer b/c after searching for sometime for this exact model they were the only ones who had it. I figured after sometime the dye/oil transfer would dissapate. It got much better over time but it is still happening. It has just been one of those things that you are forever telling yourself "I need to call about this".

Like I said previously- I am not looking for replacement or anything on the warranty but just a suggestion from the manuf. I did finally get a call back from the dealer yesterday, he had the same idea I have to put some sort of weather proofer/suede sealer on it. He is putting in a call to Longhorn. I won't be applying anything until I hear what Longhorn suggests. I didn't want to take the chance of ruining the suede. It is a gorgeous saddle, I take excellent care of it- by looking at it you wouldn't know that it is 3yrs old and is used a ton.

Tracie

[/i]

quote:

If nothing else you could have the seat replaced. It would cost but it would solve the problem.



Unfortunately, replacing the seat is the most difficult part to replace, if you are to have it done properly. It is harder and usually more expensive than replacing the tree.

If this has been happening ever since you bought the saddle, why didn't you take it to the tack store right away? Three years of use is very hard to explain away when the warranty on a saddle is usually only 30 days.
[/quote]
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Tracie
Tenderfoot



USA
6 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2006 :  10:09:40 AM  Show Profile  Visit Tracie's Homepage Send Tracie a Private Message
Thanks for the suggestion. I haven't applied anything to the saddle. When it arrived I remember wiping off the fenders, etc. b/c it seemed heavily oiled- I had never purchased a new saddle before so the extra oil didn't seem out of the ordinary. When I spoke to a saddle rep from a different company for suggestions (she was in my local tack store) she stated that she didn't care for black suede for that very reason- dye transfer. Yes- I let time go by & when I pulled out my paperwork on the saddle I realized I bought it 6/03. Other than the seat issue I have no complaints and haven't had a reason to contact the manf or dealer.

Thanks again for your suggestion. I remember seeing that product mentioned on this board before.

Tracie

quote:
Originally posted by OnTheWay

Even if it's three years hence, and even if she didn't complain or act on it until now, I would think the manufacturer would STILL be willing to give her suggestions how she might proceed. I mean, just as a matter of courtesy. True, by this time (assuming no complaints have been raised in the past) for all they know she's oiled it with something weird. However, I would imagine if she's having this problem (and hasn't put anything on it to cause it herself) then it doesn't seem likely this is the first they've heard of the problem. Whether they'd want to mess with it after this much time as a matter of customer service or not, up for grabs.

Tracie, long shot. My farrier is also a saddle maker. It started as a hobby, but people order custom made saddles from him and he has a year's waiting list. They are apparaently high end saddles, yadda yadda. I've never seen one, but this is all I know. However, in talking about leather preservation, he said there's a product that he swears by. It goes by the unlikely name "Miracle Juice." It's made by a saddle making company in the Carolinas, and while one would think it would be distributed nationally, apparently it's not. They make it themselves and they use it themselves. They sell it if you order it.

Chris says there are really super properties to it. We were talking about an old western saddle I'm borrowing that's been used and abused, it has some ground in dirt and who knows what else from sitting out in a barn for years. He said something about moisture getting into the leather, and said this stuff will literally "squeeze water" out of leather. He said it's the best treatment he's ever found for leather, bar none. Now I have NO clue whether it would do anything for you, but the company is the kind where you could email them the problem you're having and as them their opinion what you might do. And mention this product they have and ask if they think somehow this would take care of your problem.

Here's link to their website. Then click on "Tips." The product is mentioned there. There's also email contact information. I don't see what you could possibly have to lose by contacting them, describing the problem and asking if they've ever heard of this problem or if they think this solution would work for you.

http://www.caldwellsaddle.com/frameset.htm

Click on "Tips" on the left bar menu.

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OnTheWay
Clinician

1433 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2006 :  11:01:18 AM  Show Profile Send OnTheWay a Private Message
Tracie, if you got a call back from the dealer, at least that's a start. If he calls you back with a report on what the manufacturer said, try to get from him who he talked to. If he didn't get a name (which he should), then ask at least what department he got the information from -- just so you know where the information came from. If then you had any more detailed questions, you could go straight to the manufacturer and be able to cite some history on the inquiry, but just clarify whatever (if anything) you want to.

So you are making some progress! Do let us know what came of it, I'm always curious to see how manufacturers or sellers deal with various types of problems. To me, while chirping up about this long, long ago would have been preferable, then assuming they have no reason to doubt what you tell them that you may or may not have put on the saddle, the length of time just shouldn't matter on a case like this. If anything, it should alarm them even more that it's still "bleeding" oil, let alone DYE, 3 years later.

Hope it works out!

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Chuck
Forum Admin



USA
1265 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2006 :  11:24:53 AM  Show Profile  Visit Chuck's Homepage Send Chuck a Private Message
quote:
So you are making some progress! Do let us know what came of it, I'm always curious to see how manufacturers or sellers deal with various types of problems. To me, while chirping up about this long, long ago would have been preferable, then assuming they have no reason to doubt what you tell them that you may or may not have put on the saddle, the length of time just shouldn't matter on a case like this. If anything, it should alarm them even more that it's still "bleeding" oil, let alone DYE, 3 years later.


There are two reasons why you won't find Simco saddles on our website.

Yes - please keep us informed.

Chuck

Horse Saddle Shop

http://www.horsesaddleshop.com
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OnTheWay
Clinician

1433 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2006 :  2:45:44 PM  Show Profile Send OnTheWay a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Chuck

[quote]
There are two reasons why you won't find Simco saddles on our website.

Yes - please keep us informed.



Chuck, is Longhorn a Simco saddle? Just curious. I know zip about saddles. I'm sure that's surprising as can be.
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Tracie
Tenderfoot



USA
6 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2006 :  3:00:49 PM  Show Profile  Visit Tracie's Homepage Send Tracie a Private Message
I think they merged into one company a longtime ago. I was avid about staying away from Simco. This saddle is definitely a Longhorn not a Simco. I did quite a bit of research on the saddle prior to buying it.

I wanted this particular saddle b/c I was borrowing my trainers old show saddle several years ago- it was the only saddle that fit my horse well. I fell in love with it b/c it was so comfortable. The only problem was that it was at least 20 yrs old if not older. I was thrilled when I was able to find the exact saddle. The only difference was that I got a black seat and not the brown as hers was originally.

My day keeps getting better- I just got an email from the dealer:
Tracie,

I spoke w/ the plant Mgr. for Simco-Longhorn and he said that they recommend that you scotchgard the seat. Which is more or less what you and I discussed. So, try to put some type of sealer on it. He said to put two-three good coats. Letting it dry weel in between coats. I hope this helps you and stops your problem. Let me know after you've tried it. Sorry for the inconvenience.

T. Miller


I will give it a try!

Tracie



quote:
Originally posted by OnTheWay

quote:
Originally posted by Chuck

[quote]
There are two reasons why you won't find Simco saddles on our website.

Yes - please keep us informed.



Chuck, is Longhorn a Simco saddle? Just curious. I know zip about saddles. I'm sure that's surprising as can be.

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Tracie
Tenderfoot



USA
6 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2006 :  3:02:39 PM  Show Profile  Visit Tracie's Homepage Send Tracie a Private Message
Correction: I meant Indiana not Iowa.

quote:
Originally posted by Tracie

I couldn't take it back right away- I bought it online from a dealer in Iowa- I live in WA state. I got it from this dealer b/c after searching for sometime for this exact model they were the only ones who had it. I figured after sometime the dye/oil transfer would dissapate. It got much better over time but it is still happening. It has just been one of those things that you are forever telling yourself "I need to call about this".

Like I said previously- I am not looking for replacement or anything on the warranty but just a suggestion from the manuf. I did finally get a call back from the dealer yesterday, he had the same idea I have to put some sort of weather proofer/suede sealer on it. He is putting in a call to Longhorn. I won't be applying anything until I hear what Longhorn suggests. I didn't want to take the chance of ruining the suede. It is a gorgeous saddle, I take excellent care of it- by looking at it you wouldn't know that it is 3yrs old and is used a ton.

Tracie

[/i]

quote:

If nothing else you could have the seat replaced. It would cost but it would solve the problem.



Unfortunately, replacing the seat is the most difficult part to replace, if you are to have it done properly. It is harder and usually more expensive than replacing the tree.

If this has been happening ever since you bought the saddle, why didn't you take it to the tack store right away? Three years of use is very hard to explain away when the warranty on a saddle is usually only 30 days.


[/quote]
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Red Hawk
Clinician



USA
5092 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2006 :  10:53:42 AM  Show Profile Send Red Hawk a Private Message
Okay, I'm going to bite. What is wrong with the Simco saddles as compared to other saddles? The reason I'm asking is because I own an older Simco saddle that I've had for over 15 years, and it's one of the best saddles I've ever had outside of my barrel saddle that I trail ride in. I have no idea what brand my barrel saddle is since it has no identifying marks of any kind.

"God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses"
--Robert Browning

Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
-- Author Unknown
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Chuck
Forum Admin



USA
1265 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2006 :  12:42:12 PM  Show Profile  Visit Chuck's Homepage Send Chuck a Private Message
I've no problem with the older Simco saddles. They are excellent saddles. I feel the recently made saddles (past 7 years) are completely overpriced. The Simco-Longhorn merge in 1990 started the focus on quantity rather than quality. It has been a downhill process that I hope they reverse.

Chuck

Horse Saddle Shop

http://www.horsesaddleshop.com
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Red Hawk
Clinician



USA
5092 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2006 :  1:18:14 PM  Show Profile Send Red Hawk a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Chuck

I've no problem with the older Simco saddles. They are excellent saddles. I feel the recently made saddles (past 7 years) are completely overpriced. The Simco-Longhorn merge in 1990 started the focus on quantity rather than quality. It has been a downhill process that I hope they reverse.



That is truly sad to hear, Chuck... and thank you for the information. I echo your sentiments in hoping the downhill trend can be reversed.

"God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses"
--Robert Browning

Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
-- Author Unknown
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