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Nava
Tenderfoot



9 Posts

Posted - 02/27/2006 :  9:35:50 PM  Show Profile  Visit Nava's Homepage Send Nava a Private Message
Let me start out by saying that I hurt my knee and cannot ride with a saddle for a while, and am not exactly Crazy Horse when it comes to balence while riding bareback ^_^

Luke, my 3 year-old Welsh X gelding (Gelded only a year ago), whom is trained western, was perfect in Summer and Fall. Anyone at all could have ridden him. Now, however, he's developed some problems...

The first is that he doesn't know the meaning of the term "relaxed jaw". He stops on a dime, but resists the bit all of the time, besides that. It's a battle just to get him to turn his head. I use a plain Western medium-port curb with a browband bridle.

Whenever I ask for the lope (He's trained by voice commands), he charges ahead like he's Man O' War and runs into the middle of the arena, his head almost between his knees. As I have said, I only have partialy-decent balence bareback and I always start to slip. I said that he stops on a dime, but he certainly does'nt slow down. I sometimes have to really pull on the reins to get him to slow down, which discourages him from loping at all.

Please help?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Deep into that darkness peering. Long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting..."

Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 02/28/2006 :  12:35:03 AM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
Is it that you can't use stirrups? If that's the problem take the stirrups off or just ride without them. That way you have a little better then just bare back.


The rest sounds like a horse that has had some time off and doesn't want to go back to work. Start with ground work and build up to riding. Work on him giving to the bit, remind what it is. Do long lining(should be better on your knee then ground driving). When 'in the saddle' work first on just giving to the bit at the stand still and then walk. avoid the lope and trot until you have some control at the halt and walk. Then work on the trot and build up to the lope.

Doyou normally ride one handed or two? With a curb bit the horse should be going on a loose rein. If you are using a tight rein or direct reining him then that could be a good part of the problem. He would get sour to the bit if you hang on the reins or use contact all of the time.
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Nava
Tenderfoot



9 Posts

Posted - 02/28/2006 :  08:11:48 AM  Show Profile  Visit Nava's Homepage Send Nava a Private Message
Thanks for your help.

Yeah, putting weight in the stirrups is the problem. Normaly I ride with one rein, but Luke is'nt always reliable to handle like that. He had most of the winter off because the cold made my knee hurt worse.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Deep into that darkness peering. Long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting..."
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Nava
Tenderfoot



9 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2006 :  12:58:33 PM  Show Profile  Visit Nava's Homepage Send Nava a Private Message
Now I have other problems...

Luke keeps coming inside during longing, like a foot from me, and I can't get him to go out no matter what. He also tosses his head and lowers it between his knees (Keep in mind that the only equipment I have for this is a stud chain, a halter and a longe-line), and he keeps stopping. Either I stand there for an hour, kising and tapping, or I have to hit him to get him to move. *Sigh* Can't I do anything right with this pony?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Deep into that darkness peering. Long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting..."
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Boots
Beginning Rider



USA
72 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2006 :  4:52:29 PM  Show Profile  Visit Boots's Homepage Send Boots a Private Message
Hello Nava. Here's an opportunity to find out what Natural Horsemanship is all about!

Comments from other posters?? ;-)

Boots

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Tell me, and I forget. Teach me, and I may remember. Involve me, and I learn. Ben Franklin
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Truth is not determined by a majority vote.
- Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger
(Now Pope Benedict XVI)

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Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 03/01/2006 :  9:14:31 PM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
You have to use your body and time your cues.

The best way to teach a horse to listen to "light" cues(like voice or light leg and rein cues) is to start light and get louder if they don't listen. Loud enough to make them react.

For the not wanting to go...without knowing the whole case it's hard. Make sure you are more towards the hip then the neck since that is the cue to slow/whoa. You need to be behind the center to drive the pressure forward. Also make sure you aren't pulling on the line or giving any mixed cues.

Don't start out with him way away from you. It might not seem that far to you but to a horse being left out on the line can be scary. So keep him a little close but not so close it is a tight circle. Lets start with going clockwise. Ask the horse to move off my pointing with your right hand(which is holding the line as it goes to his head). With your left hand(which has the whip and end of line or just end of the line make some engery by pointing the whip towards his hindlegs or waving the end of the line lightly and do what every voice cue you give(click, cluck, "Walk", "Walk On", etc). If he doesn't react right away, make the voice cue louder and flick the whip towards him but not hitting or snapping. If no whip them flip the end of the line, towards but not hitting him. If he still doesn't move off then make the whip/line cue louder. Flick it closer or snap the whip behind him. If it still doesn't get a reaction then flick the whip/line so that it does make contact but not to the point that it's going to be real whip. More like a soft 'flop' on his butt. That should get him going. Let him go around or two and then stop him and ask him to start again, repeating the stages starting with the lightest. Repeat that many times, stopping and starting. He will figure out that if he reacts to the lightest cue you won't use the loud ones.

For the moving in...this is why I teach my horses to "IN" and "OUT". I can change the circle whenever I want and it gives me cues to use when a horse does get upset and tries to climb on your shoulders. For "IN" I use that voice cue, drop the tip of the whip behind me and move my leading hand in towards my stomach as I draw up the line(which also works as a cue). For "OUT" I use that voice cue and a wave of engery down the line towards the face. With enough work the word "out" gets them moving. You have to remember to give the horse line to move out.

You can use that same idea for your problem. When he starts to get close, even an inch closer then where you put him, send a wave down the line towards his face. If that doesn't work make it a bigger and bigger wave, flap your hand if you have to and firmly say "OUT". If you use a whip you point it towards the shoulder and use flicks, if he doesn't listen then you can flick the shouler with it. Or you can use the end of the line. If you are doing this don't use a stud chain because that will flick the metal up into his face. If you need a chain to control him, you need to work on that but also you can adjust it so that there is very little chain or you can use the line in place of the chain.

For lunging I have found that running a flat line throw the side ring closest to you over the nose, throw the ring on that side, down under the nose and then back to the side ring on your side. This gives you more contral then just with it hooked to the halter. You can do this with a chain also but what I normally do with the chain it run it through the side ring on your side, over or under the face(depends on the case) and then under the jaw up to the ring on your side by the eye/ear. If the chain is shorter just snap it to that ring. If it is too long then run it through the ring and snap it back to itself so that the other end of the stud chain just sticks out of the ring with no more then 1/2 inch sticking out. This gets rid of the heavy metal flopping around, which could be part of your probelm if you do have it set up with it too long from the halter.

Personally I do not like a stud chain on a lunge line. I use a 30-35 foot flat cotton line. It's long enough to do huge circles with well broke horses or to have enough line left over to use as a cue. I have a number of different lengths of stud chains if I ever do have to use one. I do have some normal leads with stud chains on them but I hate them. I just stick the stud chain in my pocket and use it only if I need by putting it on the horse and snapping a normal lead to them. I seldom use them at all only with new head strong horses until I can work with them.
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Red Hawk
Clinician



USA
5092 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2006 :  11:00:26 AM  Show Profile Send Red Hawk a Private Message
Great post, Stormie!

Just a few comments, Nava; Instead of saying "IN" I use "Come". I have also found these two cues to come in handy for other things. Both my horses know that when they are in the barn and I want them out, when I say "Out", they go out. "Come" also works if you want the horse to face you or come up to you in a stall or small enclosure such as a round pen, which in turn gets their hind legs away from you if they are inclined to kick.

Another thing about wanting a horse to come up to you is never look them in the eye or straight on like staring them down. This is what a predator does when stalking prey, and a horse is a prey animal. I never look my horses right in the eye unless I want them to go away from me or I'm upset with them about something. Usually it's best to look off to one side when asking a horse to come to you and to keep your body relaxed and non-threatening. It's not near as intimidating to the horse. The trainer that worked with my mare would look totally away from the horse, raise his arm directly toward the horse with the palm up, and then becken with his fingers. He didn't even say anything, and Terra came right up to him after a few times he did this. Since then, I've done this with her in conjunction with the "Come" verbal cue, and it works great.

"God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses"
--Robert Browning

Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
-- Author Unknown
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Nava
Tenderfoot



9 Posts

Posted - 03/02/2006 :  6:18:39 PM  Show Profile  Visit Nava's Homepage Send Nava a Private Message
I feel so stupid.....

The reason Luke has been a brat is just because he's bored! I rode him outside of the arena yesterday for the first time in months and he was perfect again! I really feel like an idiot -_-

Yes, I already know the 'light cute' thing, and I already use the command 'out'. I should have been more specific.

And I got a Parreli book about a year ago. I did'nt understand a word of it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Deep into that darkness peering. Long I stood there, wondering, fearing, doubting..."
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