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 The Beginning Rider
 wrong personality for owning a horse?
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Saddletramp
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
2546 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2006 :  4:50:23 PM  Show Profile  Visit Saddletramp's Homepage Send Saddletramp a Private Message
Just a brief (I think) comment about horses that may be advertised as "kid broke" or "ridden by kid"....

Remember that some lucky kids have been riding since they were in diapers, and probably ride better than some adults. There are also many more fearless kids out there who will get up on any horse, some with mom or dad's permission or urging, so that the horse gets the "ridden by kid" description. When I read those two descriptions in horse ads, I usually think about these two types of kids, and of the types that Flooper mentioned.

I can honestly say that my mare has been ridden, and will continue to be ridden, by a 12-year old girl....but would I put any other kid up in the saddle, very probably not. And I certainly wouldn't put a beginner up on her.

FB- I want to send Chey for that police-horse training! There is a trainer in IL who specializes in it, and I think that it would really boost her confidence level!

-Saddletramp

"She never moved the stars from their courses,
but she loved a good man and she rode good horses"
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TripleB
Beginning Rider



65 Posts

Posted - 02/24/2006 :  8:02:17 PM  Show Profile  Visit TripleB's Homepage Send TripleB a Private Message
I didn't mean to sound misleading... I also know that there isn't ever 100% bombfroof anything in life, What I meant to say... Is that you don't always have to spend a ton of money to find a horse that suits your personality. They are out there, if you feel comfortable on it, it makes a big difference! My father-in-law has a horse he just loves, but I can't stand to ride him, he is too much to handle for me, however he can't stand to ride my horse because he gets bord. So in both of our opinions, we each have the perfect horse, yet they are completly different.

I am sorry guys! I never meant to sound like I thought bombproof meant safe, because stuff happens, no matter if you are in a car on a horse or just crossing the street, NOTHING in life is ever completly safe!
Just thought I better clairify....

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elizNY
Beginning Rider

USA
105 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2006 :  04:02:12 AM  Show Profile  Visit elizNY's Homepage Send elizNY a Private Message
Offred, don't feel alone! I am in the same boat, although I haven't bought yet, I am still in the "trying out" stage and getting discouraged, even to the point where I am wondering if I am cut out for all this. I continually hear "be more agressive" and "don't let him get away with that" and then like you, I get the scoop from the young kids...anyway, even my husband said "gee honey, did you ever think maybe its not the horses?" Well, yes I did, but then I thought of all the horses I've ridden without incident, without fighting and without attitudes. I am one of those quiet, non-assertive people too and sometimes when the trainer says "perfect match" I think he is overestimating my abilities (fortunately, he is patient and polite).
Anyway, don't feel alone. I can think of 4 people at this barn that bought horses that weren't good matches. The barn bought back the first 2 after it got to the point that neither the horses nor riders ever "got better" and they just couldn't ride them any more. The third was here 2 weeks and gave the owner so much grief its for sale already. The 4th did improve somewhat, but still bucks the owner off on a fairly regular, though less frequent basis. It is hard when you have an emotional (and financial) investment in a horse, but riding should be fun, not a constant battle or a constant fear for your safety.
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Hook
Trail Boss (Moderator)



Canada
6115 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2006 :  06:37:15 AM  Show Profile  Visit Hook's Homepage Send Hook a Private Message
I would talk to the previous owners regarding your problems with the horse. Expect the previous owner to be responsible and to recognize that this is not the horse for you. If the horse truly just needs a more confident / experienced owner they should have no problem taking him back and refunding your money. Only a very marginal / trainer / owner would not recognize that value of a satisfied customer and should help you find anothersuitable horse. If this doesn't work they should also understand how a disatisfied customer can be very effective in spreading the disatisfaction around both locally and through out the horse internet world. After all we know the story already way up here in Canada:)

Hook(ed)......on Horses

"The best things in life are nearest: Breath in your nostrils, light in your eyes, flowers at your feet, duties at your hand, the path of right just before you. Then do not grasp at the stars, but do life's plain, common work as it comes, certain that daily duties and daily bread are the sweetest things in life. " Author: Robert Louis Stevenson
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PaintGal
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
5300 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2006 :  08:58:39 AM  Show Profile Send PaintGal a Private Message
I think one thing that needs to be mentioned is the time it takes to really get to know a horse and to let the horse get to know you. It's rare that anyone can hop on any horse the first time and both feel comfortable, especially if you're a new rider or one that's been out of the saddle for a while.

I had reservations when I bought Joe and spent a couple of weeks riding in the dry lot & another couple riding in pasture before I ventured out. I needed to get back in shape, get used to Joe and maybe even more importantly give him time to get to know me. Once you know a horse, you realize what the horse is going to do and can redirect &/or stop them from doing it. It becomes almost 2nd nature and you don't think about it.

Getting the horse to listen to you is important. Bending, flexing while the horse is still is one way. Turning small circles, keeping the neck flexed toward the circle is another. Backing the horse, having them step up again will help too. Having the horse lower his head & tuck his chin will also get them thinking & paying attention to you. You don't have to take off around the rail or down the trail every time you're in the saddle.

Offred, your horse is arena soured and has been getting away with crap for a long time. If you decide to keep or give him more time, you might take him to the arena to groom & feed rather than ride every time. You might saddle him & lead him in, then take him out & unsaddle or unsaddle there. If you ride him, don't stick to the rail, do small circles, cross from side to side... mix it up! No way would I let this horse be used for a lesson horse.

I bought Joe from a trader/dealer, after saying no way would I buy from a trader (of course, I said I wouldn't buy a paint either! LOL!!). I know not all traders are honest but this guy also trained & showed horses for others, had a nice place and made his living with horses. So be cautious but don't NOT look at horses for sale at trader/dealer places or a horse that went through an auction as Joe did. There have been some really good threads on how to find & purchase a horse but you'll have to search for them I think.

Karen ~ Trails
&
Joe Paint Gelding
Paoli, IN


"My treasures do not sparkle or glitter, they shine in the sun and neigh in the night."



~~~~~~
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fracturedbones
Clinician



3424 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2006 :  11:53:12 AM  Show Profile  Visit fracturedbones's Homepage Send fracturedbones a Private Message
Good point about "kid ridden". I often see in ads here "good husband horse". Not sure what that means?? Suppose depends on how well you like your husband!!
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Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2006 :  1:41:38 PM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
I saw an ad the other day that said that "She likes a Fast Rider". No idea what that means but it doesn't sound good.
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FLOOPER
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
2493 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2006 :  2:27:01 PM  Show Profile  Visit FLOOPER's Homepage Send FLOOPER a Private Message
My favorite is "this one needs a real cowboy."

Flooper

"I'm a man. I can change. If I have to. I guess."
The Man's Prayer from the Red Green Show
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Red Hawk
Clinician



USA
5092 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2006 :  3:00:19 PM  Show Profile Send Red Hawk a Private Message
This all reminds me of when my cousin's daughter learned how to ride. My cousin, Rhela, had just bought a pony for her 9 year old son and 11 year old daughter to learn how to ride. This pony was the "baby sitter" type. She had some years on her and had gone through 2 years of 4H kids with one family. She was very laid back and took everything with a grain of salt.

Jim & Tera(Rhela's kids) quickly out grew the pony as their riding improved and were ready to advance to a horse. So, they traded for an unbroke 2 year old that I'd agreed to help them train. Well, the mare turned out to be a handful, and Tera was a very timid rider. It'd taken her time to get used to the pony to where she trusted the little mare, and now she had nothing to ride. The newly bought young mare was way too much for her.

That's when Tera became interested in learning how to ride hunt seat, and the only hunt seat trained horse we had was my show gelding, W.T. Now, W.T. was pretty much a one person horse, and was very much used to my way of riding him. When Tera first started to ride him hunt seat, she had a terrible time learning to balance and to post. She came down hard on his back and was off balance. W.T. hated it, and I could see after a few lessons that he wanted nothing better than to get rid of her... but didn't because I was right there making him put up with it. What to do? Rhela and I didn't know how to solve the problem, and she could easily see that Tera was heading for a bad fall that would probably turn her off of horses for life.

And that's when I came across the ad for an Appaloosa gelding for sale. Two years earlier, I'd sold Warrior because I couldn't afford to board 3 horses... and this gelding sounded exactly like him. So, I called the number. YES!!! The horse for sale was Warrior!!! I asked Rhela if it was okay to buy him and put him in her barn with the rest of our horses. Sure! So, Warrior came back home to us as a 7 year old.

It took a lot to get Tera to ride him, and then only if I stayed at his head. But it wasn't long before Tera was riding him all over the barn yard with me watching from the side. She & Warrior became inseperable in a few short weeks, and he soon was responding to her better than he'd ever done with me. She had found her horse, and showed him for 2 years in open & 4H competition. I couldn't believe how they clicked together. She showed him in hunter hack at the county 4H show, and Warrior went to the high side of the first fence that had the jump poles crossed in an X. Tera almost went off, and Warrior stopped dead in his tracks. She regained her seat, but he wouldn't even budge until he knew she was okay and ready to continue the course. That's how bonded they were to each other.

There was one time when Tera took Warrior out for a road ride, and sometime before that I'd told her about how Warrior would play a game when riding him alone down the road(He never did it when he was with another horse). First, he look around like he was hunting for something, and then act like it was nothing. Then, he'd come up beside or near whatever he had spied, and do his thing... dropping his back a good foot and doing a beautiful 180 degree pivot all in one swing. It was always so quick, you didn't even know it'd happened until it was over. Well, Tera went for her ride, but when she came back, she was extremely quiet. Sure enough... Warrior had pulled his little game with her. I know the first time he'd pulled it on me, I about had to change my pants!

I never got the kind of response from Warrior that Tera always got when I rode him. He was waaaay too mellow for me, and he sensed it every time I rode him. He'd do just about anything for her, but with me, he just went through the motions and nothing else. I also liked something a little more spirited. His heart belonged to Tera to the day he died.

"God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses"
--Robert Browning

Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
-- Author Unknown
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offred
Tenderfoot

16 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2006 :  8:39:13 PM  Show Profile  Visit offred's Homepage Send offred a Private Message
UPDATE!
To all who have cared enough about horses and new riders to post their advice, thank you. I liked reading about horse relationships, finding just the right horse and knowing what to do when faced with a problem.
Today, I received a letter from the former owner. We have never met in person as the stable manager/trainer has handled all transactions. I had tried to reach him by phone, but it was impossible, so I wrote to him.
He said we could recind the sale if I wished. They cannot locate the horse's papers.
We are out the money for training and boarding, shoeing and vetting and shots. But, in my heart, I don't think this is a good match between horse and rider. A few people have said that with more training, he could be a marvelous horse. But as I watched him in turnout today, rearing repeatedly to bite neighbor horses and challenge every single horse near him, I thought, no. This is not the horse for me. A young man who trains horses came by and showed me some more ways to work him in the round pen. Good advice and learning is never wasted. But he and another person came by and pointed out my horse's face. "Notice all the bite marks on his face and neck from dominance issues with other horses? If he were a more submissive horse, he'd have those on his rump instead." We did get him worked in the round pen, the belief being "no bad horses", and he's not wild, but I don't think I have the personality match. I want to ride and continue to learn to improve my skills- fearful on a horse that may bolt or rear is an accident waiting to happen. Horses know if a person is timid.
I have heard so many things around the stables. One was that "oh, if it is only a 2 ft rear, it's not that bad" but I'd like to continue to search for a horse that is more mellow. Older is fine. Ugliest horse on the planet? Beautiful in my eyes if we can work together!
I am concerned about the horse. The former owner couldn't give a rip about his health. They never came out. You can be darn sure I'll be picking this horse's feet and turning him out until the stable sells him. I feel badly too- he sees my car and immediately begins whickering for carrots. The poor guy will get TLC. But riding him unnerves me. Bolting at a full gallop or rearing is just too much.
Again, thank you. I will let you all know what happens with the search. But- do others think this is true- is there really a difference between a 2 ft rear and a high-ho-Silver rear?
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Western Horsewoman
Tenderfoot

USA
18 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2006 :  9:14:24 PM  Show Profile  Visit Western Horsewoman's Homepage Send Western Horsewoman a Private Message
There's dressage "airs above the ground"--which are beautiful and done by the horse on the rider's cue! Totally different than those done with no cueing.

I think you are doing the smart thing--even if it isn't easy. I empathize with you for worrying about the horse. Maybe he needs to be away from that stable and with different horses that won't beat him up. He sounds unhappy.

You'll find YOUR horse, I'm sure. The right kind of horse will give you confidence and you'll become a better rider and partner for your horse. Give it time and really try the horse before you buy.




"This woman's place is in the saddle"
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beccajane
Trainer



USA
985 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2006 :  9:16:54 PM  Show Profile  Visit beccajane's Homepage Send beccajane a Private Message
Congratulations on a wise decision. I'm really glad to hear this. What a good heart you have, continuing to care for the horse. Someday, soon I hope, you will find a more laid back horse and he will make you feel so good. I'm sorry this didn't work out for you and I hope it hasn't ruined your riding desire. Hang in there...the right one will come along!
BTW, IMO, a rear is a rear is a rear and there is no good one. Period.
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Red Hawk
Clinician



USA
5092 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2006 :  10:25:26 PM  Show Profile Send Red Hawk a Private Message
I'm happy for you, offred. You've made a very wise decision. As far as the rearing thing? Think of it this way: A horse shouldn't do anything on his own when being handled or ridden by anyone without waiting for that person to tell them what to do first. The horse should always ask the handler/rider if it's okay before trying anything. Of course, if the horse is scared or fears his life is in danger, all bets are off and it's everyone for himself. But any well trained, been-there-done-that type should put up with just about anything when it comes to minor mistakes, and not try anything that'd put the rider in any real danger... and the more you tell us about this horse you own, the more I am so glad you are selling him.

My best to you.

"God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses"
--Robert Browning

Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
-- Author Unknown
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paintedbliss
Trainer



USA
618 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2006 :  09:40:47 AM  Show Profile Send paintedbliss a Private Message
I think your are making the right decision, there is a horse out there waiting for you. I also was a timid rider/owner when i started back into riding 2 years ago. I give you credit for sticking with him as long as you did i don't think you're as timid as you think, i would have sent him packing weeks ago. Just take you're time looking for your horse, i had to try out 8 horses all so-called beginner/bombproof before i found my girl. She has had a couple of little problems that i was able to correct with a lil trust and patience but she is as bombproof as i'm gonna hope to find.
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fracturedbones
Clinician



3424 Posts

Posted - 02/26/2006 :  2:39:12 PM  Show Profile  Visit fracturedbones's Homepage Send fracturedbones a Private Message
Glad the seller agreed to take the horse back. I'd consider the $$ spent as getting your feet wet in the horsey life! Think it has happened to alot of us. Purchase price is only the beginning as they say...
quote:
But- do others think this is true- is there really a difference between a 2 ft rear and a high-ho-Silver rear?


Safest guess...he's still working on his amplitude

You have a good heart. I hope someone knowledgeable takes him on for his and next riders safety.

There was an extensive thread where forum members wrote what they would look for in a horse, horse trial, etc. I don't know how to find the archives...but it may help you alot with your next horse search on what to look for, what to pass on...how not to get too excited and overlook stuff, conditions of purchase.
Paint Gal??? You are handy with point and click, do you know how to bring this up?

Edited by - fracturedbones on 02/26/2006 2:42:56 PM
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