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 Confused...Arabian saddles
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BreezedBayou
Beginning Rider



USA
67 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2006 :  4:27:41 PM  Show Profile  Visit BreezedBayou's Homepage Send BreezedBayou a Private Message
I am more confused than ever, I was looking at Arabian specific saddles and some of they say the gullet size is 6 1/2 or 6 3/4 where others say they need a 7" gullet. I also read that FQHB won't work as the bars are too long but others say FQHB do work.

Her saddle now has a 7" gullet but has a narrow/normal angle which I guess is a semi quarter horse bar. It seems to me that the back of the saddle does not fit right, it seems to pop off and doesn't lay right. I have to tighten the cinch way down which makes the back pop up even more. I do not use a the back cinch. Should I just buy an Arabian specific saddle and be done with it????

I wante to find a barrel saddle for my Arabian. I need a 16" seat, she has a short back, and high withers. She doesn't seem to have a real wide back to me but I would say when she is muscled up she is broader in the chest/rib area. What does a wide back actually look like, does anyone know? Should I be able to eat dinner off of it something

Sorry I am more confused than ever.

Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 02/14/2006 :  11:40:18 PM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
It depends on the arab if a Full tree would work or not.

With the saddle popping up in the front that can be a sign that it's too wide but it is also a problem I see when the rocker is off. If you look at the bottom of the saddle is goes like this ) curved to fit the shape of the back which is also ) on most horses. Some horses are flater then others and then there is my horse that looks like a table top!! lol If the saddle has more curve to it then the back )| then it will rock back and forth and when you tighten the front it will tip the saddle forward making the back pop up more.

It isn't as simple as getting the front to fit you have to fit the whole length of the back.

Here is my mare







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BreezedBayou
Beginning Rider



USA
67 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2006 :  07:57:02 AM  Show Profile  Visit BreezedBayou's Homepage Send BreezedBayou a Private Message
Thanks for sharing your pictures. I don't believe that Breezys back is as wide. I am going to out her saddle on her and take some pictures of the fit and post it on here.
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BreezedBayou
Beginning Rider



USA
67 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2006 :  6:48:42 PM  Show Profile  Visit BreezedBayou's Homepage Send BreezedBayou a Private Message
I am trying to post some images of Breezy on here from my webshots website but they won't show up. Here is a link to my photo album that will show what she looks like with her saddle. The first 3 are with the cinch not tightened and the last 3 are with the cinch tightened.

http://community.webshots.com/album/547630567AYcLkc
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Hook
Trail Boss (Moderator)



Canada
6115 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2006 :  05:52:34 AM  Show Profile  Visit Hook's Homepage Send Hook a Private Message
TO POST PICTURES ON THE FORUM
∑ Open an account at http://photobucket.com
∑ Click BROWSE on the add pictures screen and upload your picture from your hard drive. This make take some time depending on the size of your picture file
∑ When the upload is complete right click on the third line down titled ďimgĒ then COPY. With my computer I donít have to highlight, when I right click all of the required file info is highlighted
∑ Now go to your post on the forum and put the curser where you want the picture.
∑ Right click, PASTE and you are done.
∑ Good idea to use preview on forum to check size of the picture. If it is too large go back to photobucket and use the edit function to reduce the size.

Good luck.

Hook(ed)......on Horses

"The best things in life are nearest: Breath in your nostrils, light in your eyes, flowers at your feet, duties at your hand, the path of right just before you. Then do not grasp at the stars, but do life's plain, common work as it comes, certain that daily duties and daily bread are the sweetest things in life. " Author: Robert Louis Stevenson
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BreezedBayou
Beginning Rider



USA
67 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2006 :  06:55:51 AM  Show Profile  Visit BreezedBayou's Homepage Send BreezedBayou a Private Message
Thanks, photobucket works a lot better. These are pictures without a saddle pad. The first 3 are the ones that are cinched and the last three pics the saddle is not cinched.











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sharon
Advanced Rider



USA
232 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2006 :  7:50:53 PM  Show Profile Send sharon a Private Message
I can't really see a high wither on this horse. I believe a wide tree may be in order. Have you considered a saddle cut like an endurance model (round skirts, 3 point rigging)? I would definately choose 3 point rigging to keep the saddle down and in place in the back.

"You never know til you know for sure and even then its hard to tell."
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BreezedBayou
Beginning Rider



USA
67 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2006 :  8:26:59 PM  Show Profile  Visit BreezedBayou's Homepage Send BreezedBayou a Private Message
Thanks Sharon, I will have to see if I can get a picture of her without the saddle with a good shot of her withers. To me the stick up pretty high. I haven't looked at the endurance saddles. I will do some research on them though. I am looking for something that has a short skirt. The one she has is 23 inches and to me it looks real close to her back hips. Maybe I shoud use the back cinch on the saddle to help a bit even though I know it isn't suppose to be tight it may have a bit.
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sharon
Advanced Rider



USA
232 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2006 :  9:37:09 PM  Show Profile Send sharon a Private Message


Here is a pic I found on the web. This saddle fits more forward,which is great for a short back, has 3 point rigging and is western in style.

"You never know til you know for sure and even then its hard to tell."
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BreezedBayou
Beginning Rider



USA
67 Posts

Posted - 02/17/2006 :  08:23:26 AM  Show Profile  Visit BreezedBayou's Homepage Send BreezedBayou a Private Message
I wonder if that is an endurance saddle. I looked at those but I am afraid since a lot of them do not have a horn/pommel and I am not that great of a ride (yet )

Here is a picture of Breezy's backside, she is the one wearing the saddle.



When she put on more muscle this past summer when she was working a lot she filled out more but never looked thick to me.
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Red Hawk
Clinician



USA
5092 Posts

Posted - 02/17/2006 :  10:39:18 AM  Show Profile Send Red Hawk a Private Message
Sharon; the pic you posted makes to saddle look too far forward on the horse. Either that or the tree is too narrow, making the saddle look like it's riding uphill. Anyway you look at it, that saddle does not fit that horse properly... at least that's the way it looks to me.

Oops!! I guess I didn't look real close at that pic. Are there horn bags over the pommel? That is probably why I thought it looked uphill. I thought I was looking at the pommel and didn't realize there were horn bags covering it. My mistake.

"God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses"
--Robert Browning

Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
-- Author Unknown

Edited by - Red Hawk on 02/17/2006 10:42:21 AM
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hmeyer
Clinician



USA
2194 Posts

Posted - 02/17/2006 :  10:47:10 AM  Show Profile Send hmeyer a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by BreezedBayou

...I am looking for something that has a short skirt. The one she has is 23 inches and to me it looks real close to her back hips.



Breeze - that is the first thing I thought when I looked at that picture, it looked to me like it was about to dig into her hip. But don't go just by me, I'm no expert in saddle fit.

By the way, she looks just like my wife's Arab, Oz. Could be twins. (except when you look underneath.... he's a gelding!)
Good looking horse!

"You learn a thing a day, you store up smart" - Festus Haggen

"A manís soul canít be hidden,
From the creatures in his care." -
Hard Candy Cowboy by Debra Meyer


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BreezedBayou
Beginning Rider



USA
67 Posts

Posted - 02/17/2006 :  11:03:43 AM  Show Profile  Visit BreezedBayou's Homepage Send BreezedBayou a Private Message
I think she definately needs a round skirt on the next saddle, and a 16" seat for me, that is as far as I have gotten, lol.

How does her withers look to ya'll. I believe the measurement on that gullet is 7" do you think it sits to high on her withers?
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Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 02/17/2006 :  11:50:17 PM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
Hawk is right the saddle on the grey horse is up hill and placed to far forward. No matter where they placed it on that horse it would slide forward like that. They have it rigged for a center fire from the looks of it but the horse is not built right for a center fire so the girth slides forward off the hay gut and pulls the saddle right with it. That saddle on that horse is going to greatly limit the shoulders. My guess is that it is not designed to ride that far forward and it could be very painful for the horse. The last thing I would want on my short backed mare above is a center fire that rides forward.


Breeze

How old is this horse? It doesn't look to high on the withers. Some weight and muscle around the back is going to change her back a lot. The length is a problem so we know it doesn't work there but how does it feel when you run your hands under it? Is it too tight in the front? Is there even contact all the way though the front? Does it bridge or put too much pressure in the middle?

Its hard to tell with a saddle on but it looks like she does have withers and isn't too wide. I think the major issue you are going to have is length.
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Hook
Trail Boss (Moderator)



Canada
6115 Posts

Posted - 02/18/2006 :  06:00:32 AM  Show Profile  Visit Hook's Homepage Send Hook a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by BreezedBayou

Thanks, photobucket works a lot better. These are pictures without a saddle pad. The first 3 are the ones that are cinched and the last three pics the saddle is not cinched.


Breezy;
I reccommend that you download Chuck's templates and check the horses withers and the saddle to check the gullet sizes and angles for a match. From yor picture it looks to me that the gullet is too wide and the overall length of the saddle is too long and cutting into her hip. Arabs typically have shorter backs and require a shorter saddle.

Hook(ed)......on Horses

"The best things in life are nearest: Breath in your nostrils, light in your eyes, flowers at your feet, duties at your hand, the path of right just before you. Then do not grasp at the stars, but do life's plain, common work as it comes, certain that daily duties and daily bread are the sweetest things in life. " Author: Robert Louis Stevenson

Edited by - Hook on 02/18/2006 06:12:25 AM
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Hook
Trail Boss (Moderator)



Canada
6115 Posts

Posted - 02/18/2006 :  06:03:25 AM  Show Profile  Visit Hook's Homepage Send Hook a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by sharon

Here is a pic I found on the web. This saddle fits more forward,which is great for a short back, has 3 point rigging and is western in style.



It looks to me that this saddle is placed too far forward on this horse. Note how the front of the saddle is raised and the gullet is forward of where the withers would typically be.

Hook(ed)......on Horses

"The best things in life are nearest: Breath in your nostrils, light in your eyes, flowers at your feet, duties at your hand, the path of right just before you. Then do not grasp at the stars, but do life's plain, common work as it comes, certain that daily duties and daily bread are the sweetest things in life. " Author: Robert Louis Stevenson
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sharon
Advanced Rider



USA
232 Posts

Posted - 02/18/2006 :  12:51:02 PM  Show Profile Send sharon a Private Message
This saddle does appear to be too far forward. However, by design it is to be placed forward on the horse. Perhaps the pic I posted is not a good fit for that particular horse, but it may also very well be by design. I have decided to order this brand and when I try it on my horse, I'll let you know how my horse and I like it. And will post pics of my own at that time. I was actually posting the pic merely as a suggestion of saddle style or cut and rigging for Breezy's horse.

"You never know til you know for sure and even then its hard to tell."
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BreezedBayou
Beginning Rider



USA
67 Posts

Posted - 02/18/2006 :  1:36:19 PM  Show Profile  Visit BreezedBayou's Homepage Send BreezedBayou a Private Message
So in the first picture, the saddle isn't cinched, but do you think that it sits to low on her withers? Do you think she may take 6 3/4 or a 6 1/2

It does sit right at the withers but when I don't have the blanket it on I put it on on the withers and pull it back until it rests in the position it wants to. With the blanket on sometimes it is hard for me to pull it back without pulling pad also. I will saddle her again and check under the saddle and see if it fits to snuggling or if I have to force my hand under it.

Stormie: She will be 5 years old in April. I did download chucks templates and I used them to try to measure her current saddle and to measure her back. If I measured at the right place the gullet is 7" and it has narrow/normal angle (is that a semi-quarter horse bar measurement?) In my opinion and obviously I don't know much about saddle fitting but if the gullet were any wider it would be sitting right on her withers. But you are right with some work and a little weight gain she does bulk up some, she did last summer at her trainers. This summer with some more work hopefully she will put on some muscle and I do worry about a hay belly on her.

So what I need is definately a shorter skirt or rounded because the one she has is 23" I believe but square and I don't see alot of skirts much shorter even in the Arabian saddles.

Can anyone explain to me about the bars cause I am confused. Are the Semi-QHB less wide across the back, the QHB a little wider and then FQHB are really wide across the back? So I need wider bars but a smaller gullet?
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Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2006 :  12:33:51 AM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
Sharon

What brand of saddle is that? I would not want any saddle that far forward because it's sitting on the horse's shoulders. What is the point of that? Why would one want that since that would cause problems with the way they move. Most saddles sit about as close to the shoulders as you would want so I don't see the benefit of a saddle that sits any farther forward. And if they flare the tree out enough to give the shoulders the room they would need with it far forward then the saddle would be either rocking forward on them or only putting weight on a small amount of the tree, less then you would want. I personally do not think that a forward saddle is better for a short backed or any length of back. Just because my mare has a short back doesn't mean I want it sitting on her shoulders.


Breeze

Yes Normal/narrow should be like a SemiQH tree. The differences in the bars have more to do with angle then width. A Full is a wider/flatter angle then a semi would be.
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sharon
Advanced Rider



USA
232 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2006 :  09:49:05 AM  Show Profile Send sharon a Private Message
Hi Stromie
I sent you a PM because I do not want to promote a brand that I have not even tried yet. I will let you know how it works out when it arrives and I have used it. Good news, if it doesn't work, I can send it back and just be out shipping costs. I have invested far more is saddles that didn't fit and lost my money on resale of those.

"You never know til you know for sure and even then its hard to tell."
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BreezedBayou
Beginning Rider



USA
67 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2006 :  10:09:06 AM  Show Profile  Visit BreezedBayou's Homepage Send BreezedBayou a Private Message
So I guess the general consensus is that I probably need a wider saddle, like FQHB and a wider gullet? Then I need to make sure that the bars are short enough in the length and I should be able to determine that by the length of the skirt correct?
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BreezedBayou
Beginning Rider



USA
67 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2006 :  11:04:02 AM  Show Profile  Visit BreezedBayou's Homepage Send BreezedBayou a Private Message
Here are two more pictures of Breezy. Of course my little Diablo always has to be in the picture too



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Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2006 :  1:27:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
Sharon

I'll go check it.



Breeze

What templates fit? All you can do is try those and then compare that to the ones that the website lists as saddles in that range. Try to find ones to try on her before you buy. It's really hard to tell in photos but to me she doesn't look all that wide but the angle might be flater then a semi would be.

Okay I went back and read if the 7" normal/narrow gullet is what fits her then more then likely you need a semi. Didn't you also want something that is going to be a deep seat? Based on the list on the website try y1531 which is a barrel saddle. They normally are deeper and lock you in a little more. BUT that doesn't mean it would fit or even be a price range since I don't have prices written down. I know that Big Horn has some syn. in that size and a couple of flex trees are to if you wanted a flex tree but that might be too long. Barrel saddles also tend to be shorter.
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BreezedBayou
Beginning Rider



USA
67 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2006 :  3:12:29 PM  Show Profile  Visit BreezedBayou's Homepage Send BreezedBayou a Private Message
Stormie, the saddle she has now I think has a 7" gullet but a normal/narrow angle but I am not sure I measured at the right place for the gullet because I think most narrow angles have about a 6 1/2 gullet. The more I look at her pictures myself I notice how short backed she is.
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Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2006 :  02:02:20 AM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
Are you using the templates to measure? WIth the way Chuck has the templates set up there is a range of gullet widths in the narrow/normal range so no not all or even most would be 6-1/2". Print off the normal/narrow and the wide templates and cut out a few to try. Maybe take photos of them on her back?
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Hook
Trail Boss (Moderator)



Canada
6115 Posts

Posted - 02/20/2006 :  06:05:06 AM  Show Profile  Visit Hook's Homepage Send Hook a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by BreezedBayou

So I guess the general consensus is that I probably need a wider saddle, like FQHB and a wider gullet? Then I need to make sure that the bars are short enough in the length and I should be able to determine that by the length of the skirt correct?



I don't want to confuse things but I think the gullet is too wide in the pictures. Chuck's templates should be placed on the withers about two or three fingers back of the point of the shoulder. Find the one that fits your horse then use the cut-out portion to check your saddle.

If the saddle was too far back in the picture, which may be the case, it would appear to have too long of a skirt. If your saddle is 23 inches ( this seems very short to me, is this the measurement for the full length of the saddle?) then I would think that it is too far back.

Hook(ed)......on Horses

"The best things in life are nearest: Breath in your nostrils, light in your eyes, flowers at your feet, duties at your hand, the path of right just before you. Then do not grasp at the stars, but do life's plain, common work as it comes, certain that daily duties and daily bread are the sweetest things in life. " Author: Robert Louis Stevenson
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