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 Good vs. Bad Advice?
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puddleplasher
Clinician



USA
1296 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2006 :  1:13:22 PM  Show Profile  Visit puddleplasher's Homepage Send puddleplasher a Private Message
Hello all, I'm a (brief) lurker on this forum finally comin' out of the bushes. Quick history: I learned to ride as a kid, stopped when I couldn't convince my parents to get me a horse (and barn and fencing and... I wonder why they wouldn't? ), took it up again about seven years ago, and have been riding a variety of other people's horses ever since. A week ago, I got my very first horse of my own, a dapple gray QH mare. Thrilled to pieces.

Here's the question: ever since I started telling people I was looking for a horse, the unsolicited advice came pouring in, and since actually getting the horse, it has only increased. Which is fine, I'm happy to have all kinds of advice, certainly I need it. Some people are better at delivering advice than others ("You know, I've tried this..." works better than "You should do this! Never do that!" as we all know). But how do you tell if the advice is any good? Everyone always sounds so sure of themselves, but what if two sure-of-themselves people are telling you opposite things? To pick a random example, one person says Tom Thumb bits are perfect, another says they're harsh and to be avoided at all costs. Now, I'm not asking about Tom Thumb bits (though chime in if you feel like it), but in situations like that, how do you decide whose advice is "right"?

'plash

Pepper sez: "Don't forget the horse!!"
'Plash's Ride Log

Edited by - puddleplasher on 02/07/2006 1:22:41 PM

FLOOPER
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
2493 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2006 :  1:23:34 PM  Show Profile  Visit FLOOPER's Homepage Send FLOOPER a Private Message
Welcome Puddle!!

Here is the best, most non-emotional and logical article on the Tom Thumb debate I've ever read:

http://www.todayshorse.com/Articles/TroublewithTomThumb.htm

As far as advice, I'm in/been in your same situation. Here's what I have done...I started asking a lot of questions here to see if I got the same advice from people in the "real world". When it lined up, I would generally accept it. When I got contrary advice, I used the magic wand for all horse owners:

"GOOGLE"

I would read, read, read and then read some more. And then I would make up my own mind. The other thing I've done is find certain people who, over time, I found their advice was always good, almost always worked, and they had a logical reason for it other than "that's just how you do it." These are the people I trust and rely on...many are on this forum.

So ask here. Ask people you know who know horses. Google in your topic and read articles. Compare. Try things for yourself to see what works. Then decide who you can trust, and who is just a hot-air, know-it-all windbag and thinks only their way is the right way.


Flooper

"I'm a man. I can change. If I have to. I guess."
The Man's Prayer from the Red Green Show

Edited by - FLOOPER on 02/07/2006 1:33:56 PM
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fracturedbones
Clinician



3424 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2006 :  1:51:02 PM  Show Profile  Visit fracturedbones's Homepage Send fracturedbones a Private Message
Puddle...welcome! My oh my...you will probably find the same conflicting type advice here ...occasionally....

Agree with Flooper. Google, horsebooks, and try to reason it out. If the advisor can't back it up with a "why" or rational basis, I'd chuck the advice out the window. Most advice is well intended. You can always tell your advisor you'll think about it so no hurt feelings. Usually more than one way to do things too. Maybe consider the experience of the source?

I wish when I returned to horses I'd had an experienced mentor and didn't have to find some stuff out the hard way. Would have saved me a lot of time and heartache.
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EZ2SPOT
Clinician

USA
3785 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2006 :  7:46:10 PM  Show Profile  Visit EZ2SPOT's Homepage Send EZ2SPOT a Private Message
Welcome, Puddle! Hey, even when you go to the "experts", professional people who have had lots of experience in certain riding disciplines, you will find there is a big difference of opinion. Flooper has given you some excellent guidelines to go by.

IMO, the bottom line is, does something work for YOU? If it does, why change? If it doesn't, time to either look around for another method, or to consider that you may not be using a certain method/piece of equipment correctly.

EZ2SPOT
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puddleplasher
Clinician



USA
1296 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2006 :  12:00:05 AM  Show Profile  Visit puddleplasher's Homepage Send puddleplasher a Private Message
Thanks for the link, Floop, there are a lot of good articles on that site! Actually, all the links everyone has provided in other topics have led me to lots of good reading, back while I was lurking...

I think my problem is I've got *too many* experienced mentors, but experience doesn't always mean they've got the right thing going, I guess. Well, I'll add this forum to my list of experienced mentors and start asking you guys my questions as well...

'plash

Pepper sez: "Don't forget the horse!!"
'Plash's Ride Log
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kristask
Tenderfoot



USA
9 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2006 :  02:19:13 AM  Show Profile  Visit kristask's Homepage Send kristask a Private Message
Hi Puddles;
Welcome to the forum. My advice is not to forget the use of common sense. There are as many different training methods as there are trainers. My thought is that each horse is different and they way they respond to their owner / trainer is different. Find a trainer / training method that seems to fit with your ideas and goals of training a horse.

The basic training methods of reward for good behavior, discouragement of unwanted behavior, consistent application of any method, many litle successes, refinement of the your technique based on experience with your horse will result in the horse being trained the way you want.

There is no magic. If it works for you and your horse you are a winner. The more knowlegde of horses you aquire the easier it is to adapt for the individual.

Good luck.
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Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2006 :  02:26:32 AM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
Yep ask question and research it yourself before you decide to do something. Also if something just doesn't feel right to you don't do it. I had a student that was pushed into letting a real cowboy whip em into shape type basicly beat her horse when it wouldn't load into a trailer. She did not feel right letting this guy do this or feel right about this method but she let him do it because he had more exp then she did. All it got her was a horse that was scared to death of the trailer.

Now on the Tom Thumb thing. With topics like that I personally prefer it when people can give you the hows and whys(which I can right down to every way it works on a horse compared to better bits). I don't like it when I hear, use this bit or this piece of tack and all they can tell you for a reason why is "It works". Well how does it work, why does it work. Many times people use things like draw reins, not because they understand it but because it's the fad, what their trainer does or what someone else told them to try. They don't understand how it works, why it works and sometimes they don't even know what results they should get.

You can normally tell how much someone knows when you start questioning them about it. Don't come off like you are attacking them but ask the hows and whys. Look it up. Also look at their horses. If you have someone telling you how to teach your horse something and you watch their horses who are half trained, walking all over them chances are they aren't a good source. The info might be good, some people are good at spitting out methods but they don't use it on their own horses but maybe take it with a grain of salt and go look it up yourself to be sure.
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OnTheWay
Clinician

1433 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2006 :  08:53:09 AM  Show Profile Send OnTheWay a Private Message
Kris, I hear you! I'm a newbie horse owner and I've had tons of questions. One of my best advisors (on SOME things) also has, however, a much rougher way of treating horses than I want. So I have to pick and choose from his advice. I've determined that my horse is simply more sensitive than the ones he's working with. He has probably DEsensitized them to his rougher, more abrupt handling techniques. He's not mean, don't get me wrong, but they probably have learned how he talks, walks, and does things and they've tuned their listening skills to that level. So deciphering what to follow and what not to when some one person gives you advice that fits YOU and your horse and also some that doesn't... that's not easy when you are learning something for the first time.

Other times I have gotten diametrically OPPOSITE advice from two people who really do know what they're doing. That's not easy either when you're learning something new for the first time.

I have no reason to plug this board but my best advice has come from here, because there's a consensus of opinion of SEVERAL people who chime in, who are a whole lot more experienced than I am. If they disagree, they have a pro and con discussion within the thread, quite civilized, but they discuss it, and in the course of that you can see which way you relate to better.

Stormie's advice to ask WHY it works and HOW it works is about the best advice you will ever get. If their advice works WITHIN an entire training method, it may not work unless you're also in it. (Example that takes that to its logical conclusion, if someone's into clicker training and they tell you when to click the clicker, your horse won't know what that's all about.)

Best advice is, ask why it works. The more they can explain, the more you can evaluate. Some people think roughing up a horse is the only way they'll listen. I have NOT found that to be the case. I start with gentle pressure, then I increase it (if possible in a rhythmic manner) until whatever point she gets it. If she doesn't get it at all, then I figure I'm doing something wrong or I'm missing something. But you haven't done a lot of damage by the time you figure out that it isn't a method she's understanding. (e.g., Stormie's example about the guy trying to trailer the horse).

Also, if you try something with horses (or in ANY venue) by rote, you won't know where you're headed. You have to have a pretty good understanding of how the type of training works because if it doesn't go "textbook," you need to have your mind set on what modifications would be consistent with the kind of training you want to do with your horse. That's another reason to ask why it works and how it works. You need to be very comfortable with the result you want and the path to it so you're not stabbing in the dark.

At least that's the conclusion I've settled in on, because I'm sure I've touched upon many common mistakes in the last 5 months. When I really have a solid grasp of how and why "I" am doing something, I know how to handle any variances, because it's then when your common sense CAN guide you.

HOpe I haven't confused the issue. ;-)
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FLOOPER
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
2493 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2006 :  09:30:45 AM  Show Profile  Visit FLOOPER's Homepage Send FLOOPER a Private Message
'plash...


Well, you have either gotten a lot of good advice in this thread.....OR.....you have gotten a lot of bad advice.......muhuwaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!

Flooper

"I'm a man. I can change. If I have to. I guess."
The Man's Prayer from the Red Green Show
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giddyupmorgan
Trainer



846 Posts

Posted - 02/08/2006 :  11:13:13 AM  Show Profile Send giddyupmorgan a Private Message
Welcome PP,
Some good advice from everyone. My best advice and what I try to live and work by is IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT.

Keeping The Kids In a Saddle and Out of Trouble
Giddyup
"Holy Moly I'll Buy What They're Selling" LJD (Get A Little Mud On The Tires)


Morgan's riding log
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Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2006 :  12:07:31 AM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
"If it ain't broke don't fit it"

I hear that a lot when it comes to bits and sometimes with training but I personally think that it is one that needs to taken lightly. Even more so for new owners. How do you know if something is broke or not? If you don't know what is right(better) what is wrong might seem to not be broken. And even then something cannot be broken but still has a lot of room for improvment. My car runs but it could run a whole lot better.

Look at new owners that allow horses to do dangerous things. They don't know that pushing into them when leading is bad, or walking ahead of them, or pawing. All are problems I have seen green owner let horses get away with. They didn't know that it was a problem so to them "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" isn't the best thing. They where getting along just fine as far as they knew and do them that was the right thing. After some work they found out that it was 'broken' and that life with a respectful horse was a whole lot better and safer. If you don't know what it is like to have better, what you have can seem great until you see that there is better way.

I think that comment is great to live by in some ways....like a loose door hinge or things like that but I think it can be very misleading and actually hold one back in some ways. It should never be an excuse to allow a horse to misbehave or to allow someone to hurt you(I hear it used for that too).
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OnTheWay
Clinician

1433 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2006 :  05:42:54 AM  Show Profile Send OnTheWay a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Stormie

"If it ain't broke don't fit it"

I hear that a lot when it comes to bits and sometimes with training but I personally think that it is one that needs to taken lightly. Even more so for new owners. How do you know if something is broke or not? If you don't know what is right(better) what is wrong might seem to not be broken. And even then something cannot be broken but still has a lot of room for improvment. My car runs but it could run a whole lot better.

Look at new owners that allow horses to do dangerous things. They don't know that pushing into them when leading is bad, or walking ahead of them, or pawing. All are problems I have seen green owner let horses get away with. They didn't know that it was a problem so to them "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" isn't the best thing. They where getting along just fine as far as they knew and do them that was the right thing. After some work they found out that it was 'broken' and that life with a respectful horse was a whole lot better and safer. If you don't know what it is like to have better, what you have can seem great until you see that there is better way.

I think that comment is great to live by in some ways....like a loose door hinge or things like that but I think it can be very misleading and actually hold one back in some ways. It should never be an excuse to allow a horse to misbehave or to allow someone to hurt you(I hear it used for that too).



Uh, pawing?? She isn't doing it anymore but when I got Cloud (before we reached our understanding), I would come out to the barn at feeding time, and as she was waiting for me to get her hay pulled apart and into her feed bin, that's exactly what she would do... stand there pawing.

What's that all about?? In what way is it bad? If it's bad, how would you correct it so the horse knows what you're even referring to?

I recall hearing some minor reference to pawing, but my questions at the time were on a more mega scale, so I never asked about the pawing.

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FLOOPER
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
2493 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2006 :  11:48:59 AM  Show Profile  Visit FLOOPER's Homepage Send FLOOPER a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Stormie

"If it ain't broke don't fit it"

I hear that a lot when it comes to bits and sometimes with training but I personally think that it is one that needs to taken lightly. Even more so for new owners. How do you know if something is broke or not? If you don't know what is right(better) what is wrong might seem to not be broken. And even then something cannot be broken but still has a lot of room for improvment. My car runs but it could run a whole lot better.

Look at new owners that allow horses to do dangerous things. They don't know that pushing into them when leading is bad, or walking ahead of them, or pawing. All are problems I have seen green owner let horses get away with. They didn't know that it was a problem so to them "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" isn't the best thing. They where getting along just fine as far as they knew and do them that was the right thing. After some work they found out that it was 'broken' and that life with a respectful horse was a whole lot better and safer. If you don't know what it is like to have better, what you have can seem great until you see that there is better way.



Stormie, you make some really good points...but to me, what you're describing is how some people take the attitude of "If it IS broke, don't fix it, and don't bother to take the time to learn if it's broken or not." That's a whole lot different from what Giddy is saying.

Flooper

"I'm a man. I can change. If I have to. I guess."
The Man's Prayer from the Red Green Show

Edited by - FLOOPER on 02/09/2006 12:21:54 PM
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Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2006 :  12:56:57 PM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
Flooper

No that wasn't what I was trying to get at.....I need an ex.... I was asked to help out with a family that just got into horses. They had family memebers that had had horses for years but not really knowlegable in horses if you know what I mean. This family bought two horses so that the two girls could go trail riding. Being new to horses and really not having any back ground in them the horses went from sweet solid trail horses into lazy, I don't want work types. The first time I went over there it was clear why the horses were they way they were. The horses knew more then the humans. Because they didn't know what they where doing was not right they let the horses get away with things. They knew something was 'broke' but not until the animals were to the point of being dangerous for them. For months they had something that was broke and had no clue it was. As far as they knew they were doing the right things. So the idea of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" does work well in cases like this. How do you know if something is broke if you don't know what is broke and what isn't. In that case it was a bunch of little respect issues that build up to the point that they couldn't many things with the horses like saddle and bridle, or get them too leave home even together by the time I was called. How would they know what they were doing was broke? Their family memembers did the same thing and they people they learned from did it too. General books don't really cover this and the lessons the girls had been taking didn't cover it either. They had help but the right there hands on help they had was also broke and didn't know it.

So if someone doesn't know that letting a horse walk off when the mount or nibble pockets for treats can lead to a huge problem to them it isn't broke so why fix it. I have seen far to many horses end up with huge problems because the owners didn't know something was wrong until it became that big. I know people that think it's cute that their horse grabs their pockets for treats, I mean with teeth. Because she has been doing this for 30+ years and not had a problem it isn't broke to her...well it wasn't until she got bite badly enough to had to go to the ER.

If you don't know, it can't be a "If it is broke, don't fix it" Most of the time it isn't a case of them not wanting to fix it or not wanting to learn if it is broke but that they think it isn't an issue. If you think something is all peaches and candy then to you it is the right thing and not broke.


OTW

Pawing at feeding time drives me up the wall but that wasn't the type of pawing I meant. I was thinking more of pawing during tacking up or leading, but both are issues. Pawing at feeding time is like a little kid in the store tugging on your coat saying "Ma........Ma....Ma....MA!!!!" when you are trying to do something. They are impatient. The parent that just hands the kid a candy bar to shut them up has been taught by the child to just give in when they do this. The child learns that the parent is very trainable if they do it right. Horses do this as a way to hurry up those lowly humans that are nothing more then feeding and grooming machines. Many times horses with respect issues use this but it isn't always in those cases. My old mare would paw at feeding time. No amount of training would stop her and it wasn't and every time thing. As bossmare she hated to wait as much as I hate to be rushed. The best thing for her was to just stop the second she pawed. Until she stopped the food was with me where ever I had to stop because of her pawing. If she wouldn't stop or if I had to stop a few times I would turn around and walk the other way until she stopped. One time did she throw such a fit that I actually made it all the way back to the barn and made her wait a couple minutes. That shocked her butt so bad I don't think she even raised a foot for a couple months. The stopping worked well with her. It greatly slowed her down to the point that there would be months inbewteen pawings. That and her once a year "You can't catch anyone" parties where the only two things I couldn't fully break her of. She only 'threw the party' once a year so that wasn't that big of an issue but the best cure for that was to put her byself and not talk to her for a week...not that I could for a week. She could look far to sad and I would give in after day 3 or 4 and go shake my finger at her and tell her that if she did it again it would be the full week. She was still on the list for the rest of the week but she got to go with the other horses and I would talk to her again. One of the worst things I could do to her was not talk to her.

Pawing can get worst to the point that horses rip up feeders, stall doors, gates. They can get hurt doing it. Feed time pawing can turn over into pawing when tied up or standing around. That is more dangerous to humans if you get in the way of a foot.
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FLOOPER
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
2493 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2006 :  1:58:37 PM  Show Profile  Visit FLOOPER's Homepage Send FLOOPER a Private Message
Stormie,
I gotcha! I see what you're talking about. Makes sense. But I still think it's also a little bit of a "didn't know it was broke so didn't fix it." thing..which to me is different than tinkering and messing with something that works just fine...which is what "Don't fix it if it ain't broke" is all about to me.

Flooper

"I'm a man. I can change. If I have to. I guess."
The Man's Prayer from the Red Green Show
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giddyupmorgan
Trainer



846 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2006 :  2:21:06 PM  Show Profile Send giddyupmorgan a Private Message
Me too!

Keeping The Kids In a Saddle and Out of Trouble
Giddyup
"Holy Moly I'll Buy What They're Selling" LJD (Get A Little Mud On The Tires)


Morgan's riding log
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Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2006 :  6:38:20 PM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
"didn't know it was broke so didn't fix it."

Thats actually a lack of knowledge and depending one which side of the coin you are on it is a 'Don't fix it if it ain't broke'. We would view letting a young horse rear up as a bad thing and see it that way. but the kid that things it's cute or cool is going to view it as a "don't fix it if it ain't broke" because to them ain't broke. Two sides of one coin.

As for tinkering and messing with something that works just fine.....if that wasn't a good think we would still being living in caves and hunting with clubs. Lots of good things that we all benefit from come out of the work of people that do mess with things that work just 'fine'. From computers to our nice western saddles came from that. Fine is not always good and if something can be done better/cheaper/easier why not?
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giddyupmorgan
Trainer



846 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2006 :  8:09:56 PM  Show Profile Send giddyupmorgan a Private Message
Storm, if it is your way of making a living by tinkering with or teaching the right way of doing things as you have been tought, I fully agree with your thoughts.
In my line of work I see a lot of machine operators take a perfectly running machine and turn knobs and switches to match a (sheet) put out by someone that says it should run if you "do this". This is when I'm called to figure out what went wrong. My big question is why do you want to change something (horses, machines or anything else) thats is working for you and giving the expected results?
Preventive maintenance, tune-ups and retraining/reinforcing are what everything or everybody needs.
When I responded to this I had in my mind PP was getting a lot of unsolicited advice given from who knows who.
As recreational riders and competing in our local club events, if what our horses are doing works, we don't try to make changes that cost more money than the payoff.
So to put it a different way "IF ITS WORKING AND PRODUCING THE DESIRED RESULTS, LET IT WORK!



Keeping The Kids In a Saddle and Out of Trouble
Giddyup
"Holy Moly I'll Buy What They're Selling" LJD (Get A Little Mud On The Tires)


Morgan's riding log
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Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 02/09/2006 :  9:06:48 PM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
Ahhhh but you see even that isn't 100% because when it comes to green owners they don't always have the exp. to know if their desired results are actually desired results. Like in the case of the kid teaching the horse to rear. That was the desired results but without the exp or common sense to see that those results can cause major issues later on.

Of course taking a machine that is working right and just messing with it without thought or exp is not a good think but what if the machine really isn't working as well as one things.

Comments like this are not a matter of right or wrong but a matter of right some of the time and dangerous if you don't know as much as you thought.....going both ways. You can make it dangerous messing with a machine you know nothing about but dangerous on the other end when you think something is correct but isn't. So what's worst trying to change something you know nothing about or allowing something to happen because you don't know anything about it.

It's a no win. It's a good comment to live by but only when it works...isn't that true about just about any comment like that! lol
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PaintGal
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
5300 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2006 :  10:18:25 AM  Show Profile Send PaintGal a Private Message
Puddleplasher,

Welcome to the board!

As you can read, opinions on everything horse related vary!

Is there ONE best way?? NO!

Is there a better way to do something? Maybe.

All horses are different as are the people that work with them. What works for one horse and one person may not work with another horse or person. Fortunately, there are usually different ways to get the same result. You may have to try various products, training methods and riding habits (not the clothes ) before you find what works for you.

Congrats on your horse! Tell us more about her.

Karen ~ Trails
&
Joe Paint Gelding
Paoli, IN


"My treasures do not sparkle or glitter, they shine in the sun and neigh in the night."



~~~~~~
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Red Hawk
Clinician



USA
5092 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2006 :  10:35:04 AM  Show Profile Send Red Hawk a Private Message
I can see both sides of the coin on this:

When your horse is winning the majority of his classes and everyone is ooooing and aweing you and your horse, you really shouldn't try to change anything unless a judge sees something that might improve your performance by maybe just a hair. But in a case like this; "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." is very very true.

But if you are just starting out in horses and think you already know what you are doing when you don't, then this line of logic wouldn't work. I saw a lady who was totally new to horses, and her & her husband were getting ready to go for a trail ride. They were waiting on their friends who were their mentors in learning about horses. The lady had just bridled her horse, and I thought something look real strange about the bit. So, I politely asked if I could take a closer look at it. The bit was a short shanked curb grazing bit. The shanks below the bit were maybe 2" long if that. The problem was, she had the bit upside down! The bridle's headstall was connected to the rings that the reins should've been and the reins connected to the rings the headstall should've been!! Can't you imagine what kind of pressure this was applying to this poor mare's mouth??? So, I tactfully explained the problem and how to fix it. Meanwhile, they're friends had showed up and told me in no uncertain terms to get lost and leave them alone...that they would handle any problems their less experienced friends were having!! The bit was not changed and they left for their ride. I'm sure the lady with the problem with the bit probably had no idea that she was riding with something that could become a disaster, and since her mentors had said it was okay, I doubt if it was corrected. So, in this case (and I've seen a lot of other similar situations) the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." doesn't apply.

If I'm not mistaken, I do believe this is the point Stormie was trying to make.

"God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses"
--Robert Browning

Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
-- Author Unknown
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Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 02/10/2006 :  12:34:44 PM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
Hawk
would it shock you know to that I have since horse people with YEARS of exp and the mother was a 4H co leader that did that!! When I was in 4H(or maybe it was the year after I was out and my niece had my mare for her first yr) The daughter of the coleader had taken her bridle a part to clean it, probably the first time in years, and put it together wrong. She had a lonnnnnng shanked bit on her very green mare(whole nother issue there) and she put the bit upside down and backwards with the reins and curb strap attached to the top rings and the headstall to the rein rings which where nearly to the mare's eyes. When I explained why she was having trouble with the mare she got all witchy and told me that she knows how to put a bit and this is the way it goes, she should know her mom is a leader....okay. She didn't change it, the mare walked all over her but worst yet she showed with it like that and the judge didn't catch it!!!!!!!!!!! What do they teach 4H kids! Of course that is the same co leader that tried to coach our horse bowl team and kept telling us that horses have 4 hocks, that the book was wrong. They may have had horses for years but they didn't learn anymore then they had to and I think they did live by "If it ain't broke" because as long as they could get on and ride and not get killed it was a good day. Not that they rode enough to make it that high of a risk.

So just because someone has had horses for years doesn't mean they know what they are doing....I'm starting to think that it's far to easy to find bad advice then good then you see stories like these.
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puddleplasher
Clinician



USA
1296 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2006 :  10:49:55 PM  Show Profile  Visit puddleplasher's Homepage Send puddleplasher a Private Message
Oy... it's what they say, read read read read read. You guys are all certainly giving me a lot to read. But at least I got the bit right side up!

I'll keep sending questions -- in different topics to keep it all clean and tidy. And I'll look forward to the various answers.

More on the horse? Really, an excuse to talk about my horse? Sure!!! Pepper is a 7-yr-old quarter horse. We went on a trail ride the other day, and I found out a number of neat things about her: she can jump (ok, not that unusual, but she's a team penner, they don't usually focus on jumping), she's very cool with trailers, and she's got a heck of an afterburner when you ask for it!!! We (us & three other horse/rider teams) puttered around in the woods for a bit, ran back and forth on the straightaway under the powerlines, and then puttered around in the park's enormous sand arena for a while, trying drill formations and such. Finally had a sunny enough day to do all that! The adrenaline lasted until sometime this morning...

Now it's raining again, back to the boring ol' indoor arena.

'plash

Pepper sez: "Don't forget the horse!!"
'Plash's Ride Log
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fracturedbones
Clinician



3424 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2006 :  1:59:42 PM  Show Profile  Visit fracturedbones's Homepage Send fracturedbones a Private Message
Indoor arena???? I am NOT feeling sorry for you!
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appygirl
Clinician



USA
3211 Posts

Posted - 02/23/2006 :  09:09:31 AM  Show Profile Send appygirl a Private Message
Asking for advice, whether on this forum or through other venues is always a good way to become educated on horse care/training/etc. issues. After you pose a question, the responses will generally show consistancy in how to deal with it. Watching how others respond to certain situations with their horses is another effective tool. Common sense is another good ally when dealing with a problem. Learning from your mistakes can be a jewel.

I have been around horses for many, many years, and I am still learning from others. Always ask the questions; always be inquisitive; read, study, search, ask, and implement. Doing all of this will only improve your knowledge base.


Appygirl

Man does not have the only memory,
The animals remember,
The earth remembers,
The stones remember,
If you know how to listen, they will tell you many things.
- Claude Kuwanijuma - Hopi Spiritual leader


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