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lil bit
Groomer

USA
46 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2006 :  09:19:49 AM  Show Profile  Visit lil bit's Homepage Send lil bit a Private Message
OKay, My husband went out to the pasture and started riding our horse, said that he was doing fine. He started being a little disobediant, not wanting to walk but run and trying to jump the hill instead of walking down it. So he said that he was gonna run it out of him. So he cued him to run and instead he decided that he was gonna buck around the whole pasture for a good 5-10min. session. just jump up and down trying his best to buck him off. Finally he got him to stop and walk back to the fence. Once he got off of him and out of the gate he said that the horse stomped all the way back to his barn and just stared out at the pasture. Also noticed Sunday when we were riding him he started tucking his head way down in his chest and running with it like that. This is the first that we have ever seen him do anything like this. The head tucked thing and the bucking. Any help suggestions or reasons that would make him do this out of the blue? thanks

lil bit

Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2006 :  02:24:03 AM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
What's the history? How old is he, how much training? How long have you had him? How much is he worked? Is he stalled? Other horses? What is he being fed?

It could be anything from saddle fit problems to spring fever to health problems or diet problems.
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lil bit
Groomer

USA
46 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2006 :  08:31:46 AM  Show Profile  Visit lil bit's Homepage Send lil bit a Private Message
okay he turned 6yr. in Nov. He's broke not really sure about how much training he has had. We have had him for about 6months. No he's not stalled. Has a barn but is free to roam in the pasture. No other horses yet, I feed him Super 12 pellets and sweet feed. 1/4 of 50# bag to 50# pellets mixed together. and coastal hay. I feed him about 2 1/2# day of feed. As far as worked he had a cut on his leg in early december so he just started riding him again about 2 or 3 weeks ago. Before that he would go out their about 2-3days a week for about 30-1hr. each time. Some weeks more some less. just depends. Like i said not sure about the training got him from a family member, that purchased an older horse. He has always been a little hyper but never bucked,rared,bit, or any vices that we could see. He stands for farrier,tacking, never moves or gave any problems for my husband, other than a little stubborness some times. He has a tough mouth. Have used the same saddle since we bought him. No new tack at all. And this day he had been worked for about an 1hr. before he freaked out. Husband said he was being bad and decided to run it out of him. Asked him to run and there went the bucking session. hope this helps.

lil bit
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PaintGal
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
5300 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2006 :  10:37:16 AM  Show Profile Send PaintGal a Private Message
I don't think running a horse will correct "being bad". How exactly was he being bad?

I'd stop feeding the grain if he's got good pasture and hay. I'm not familiar with costal hay though so I'm not sure of it's feed value.

Without seeing the horse, it's hard to draw any conclusions but my guess is it's a combination of feeling good, not enough work and holes in his training.

Karen ~ Trails
&
Joe Paint Gelding
Paoli, IN


"My treasures do not sparkle or glitter, they shine in the sun and neigh in the night."



~~~~~~
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fracturedbones
Clinician



3424 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2006 :  10:53:47 AM  Show Profile  Visit fracturedbones's Homepage Send fracturedbones a Private Message
Sounds like your horse was having a little fitsky at being taken away from his pasture and freedom. Was the wind up? Do you lunge him? Was he saddled and ridden in his pasture? Change in the usual way you groom, saddle, ride?

While grooming and saddling, I can often read the horse to know what I'm up against and have decided lots of ground work in order...and sometimes not ridden at all and done ground work instead due to attitude. Getting to know the horse better on the ground may help some of the other behaviors.
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lil bit
Groomer

USA
46 Posts

Posted - 01/25/2006 :  12:57:21 PM  Show Profile  Visit lil bit's Homepage Send lil bit a Private Message
okay by me saying he was being bad was that he would want to stop as they were walking and not want to go in the direction that we told him to. Not really bad just not listening. Now about the grain. In the winter dont the grass die. So do they eat the dead grass?? But even in the summer they gave him this grain. We just did what the lady told us too? But if i need to stop i will. fb- the wind wasnt up, and yes he was saddled and ridden in the pasture already that day. No we dont lunge him . I didnt even know what that was until this forum, but havent gotten a lunge line yet. No changes in saddling or grooming. Not really sure what working the horse is so im pretty sure we havent done it. Still need help with like definitions and what exactly stuff is that your suppossed to do. pg-what would be the correct response for bad behavior??
fb- the hissy fit is probably right. He was ready to stop riding and just decided to throw a tantrum figuring that he would just fly off of him. And we would leave him alone.

lil bit
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Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 01/26/2006 :  12:34:21 AM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
Lil bit

I have a hiefer named Lil Bit. She was the tiniest little calf I have ever seen. Her mom was a first mom so it was good that she was little. I just could get over how small she was. I think I could have just tossed her over my shoulder...mom would have had something to say about it!


Without seeing the case it's hard to say. At first I would have said it was the time off but you said he had been working him for 2-3 weeks after the time off.

Normally horses act out because of Pain, being hyper that day, weather, diet, a change of some type or they think they are boss over their handler.

Pain should be ruled out first in any case, even if it isn't thought to be the cause. Double check the saddle and bridle fit. As horses gain or loose weight or build muscle tack fit changes and that can cause problems. If the leg wasn't cut badly it shouldn't be a problem but if it was or was near a joint or scarred it can be a problem. Changes in the teeth can also cause pain. Pain probably isn't the cause in this case but you should learn to check that first everytime just in case.

Change in diet or need can be a problem. A horse that is being worked and then given time off has different needs at those times. You can't feed a race horse on lay off the same as you would when he is in heavy training and racing. 2-1/2lbs isn't much for a horse but if he is given free choice hay and/or is fat then the diet could be a problem and that would need to be addressed.

Weather changes horses a lot. I dont' know where you live but it spring is starting to hit your area or if the day was windy, or a major change from the day before's temps that can cause a horse to be frisky.

Changes in how they are handled. Some horses are VERY set in their ways. My one mare must be warmed up the same way every time if I plan on getting any training in and don't even ask what she is like if I don't warm her up right at a show!! I could kill her some days.

The boss thing is a big problem for a lot of people that just start out with horses or even just get a new one. Horses have a whole system of talking to each other and most of it is like whispering. You hardly see the actions of the Dominate horse over the lower horses but they are there. Horses use the same stuff on us. A head rub on you might seem nice but it is actually a form of the horse showing he is boss. Not walking well with you, pushing you around, not standing, walking off when you mount, looking at other things when you are trying to work with him, showing his butt...these are all signs of him being boss.


It's impossible to say how to react to something without seeing the cases since each case is different. Running a horse is not a bad thing if done correctly for the right thing. It normally doesn't work well for a horse that stops and stands, not wanting to go but it can work great for a horse that only wants to go fast. You run them until they want to stop and then run them some more before letting them slow down. Then you give them a break. Everytime they speed up you make them go faster and stay going faster until you say otherwise. This shows them that if they listen the job is so much easier and they won't have to work their butt off. HOrses are lazy by nature. BUT it won't work for all cases.

From the sounds of if the horse(what's his name???) was just tired and didn't want to work. He knows that he doesn't have to if he acts up enough. Now you know he will buck if given a chance so it might be better to handling it in a more contraled way then just running. Making him yield his hindquarters and shoulders. Do smallish circles and figure 8's. Get his feet moving around. It doesn't have to be straight forward. Circles and yielding are great ways to get the horse to understand that the rider has contral of the feet. The more you get them to move their feet and in the more directions the better contral you have. That will work for the stopping and for the speed contral. When he stops get him moving even if it is to bend his head around and kick his butt over. Circle like that for a couple times and then release the reins and have him walk straight out. If he doesn't circle again and repeat that until he gets the idea that going forward is much better then trying to stand and getting turned in tight little circles. If he speeds up then use circles, halts and changing direction the second he speeds up. Say you ask for a walk and he tries to trot. You could A) ask him to stop and then start again, repeating each time he goes faster then a trot. B) circle him in a small circle once or twice or as long as it takes to get him to walk and then walk on straight, repeat each time he tries to trot. C) change direction each time he tries to trot. Or D) do a mix of all of the above.

For the bucking it's best to get the head up even if that required a jerk on the rein to get his mind back on to the rider and then circle him if needed. Depending on the case and the skill of the rider getting off it's the best until you at least get the contral back and have the horse moving his feet when you ask. It's harder for them to buck if you are circling so you can use that too.

The head tucking is avoiding the bit. You can use one rein and get him to circle down slower to a stop. Do it each time and then ask him to bend a few times to each side. Work on things to get him light to the bit again.

The hill would be harder to work with. If he normally does this some ground work on it and then when he tries to do it under saddle you can go back to ground work if you don't feel safe working on it from the saddle when he is really hyped. It's basicly just one of those things you have to keep going over a 100 times until they figure out that jumping it is just going to make them have to go back and do it a 100 times.

Ground work is a good thing. If it is that he thinks he is boss that will help get some respect and contral back. Saddle work should also be focused on contral. If you have contral of the feet you have contral of the horse.

Every second we are will horses we are either training or untraining them. It's up to use which it is. A horses training does not stop when they are broke, it is an on going thing to the day they die. Each new owner is going to require some training on the horse to gain their respect and to become herd boss over them.
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PaintGal
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
5300 Posts

Posted - 01/26/2006 :  07:55:56 AM  Show Profile Send PaintGal a Private Message
quote:
No we dont lunge him . I didnt even know what that was until this forum, but havent gotten a lunge line yet.


quote:
Not really sure what working the horse is so im pretty sure we havent done it. Still need help with like definitions and what exactly stuff is that your suppossed to do.


Everyone has to start out somewhere when learning about horses but the best help you can get is hands on with an experienced horse person. There's so much more to horses and riding than climbing on & holding on. Stormie's advice is great but you need some basic knowledge about horses and how they think.

Is there someone near you that could take a look at the horse & tack & possibly work with the horse to determine if it's a physical problem or training issue? It might cost but whatever the price, it would be better than having someone injured.

I think I remember you mentioning that you were afraid to ride this horse so perhaps a trainer could help you too!


Karen ~ Trails
&
Joe Paint Gelding
Paoli, IN


"My treasures do not sparkle or glitter, they shine in the sun and neigh in the night."



~~~~~~
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