Daily Equine Forum Visit Horse Saddle Shop Read Horse Saddle Shops Blog Horse Saddle Shop Twitter Horse Saddle Shop Facebook Image Map
Daily Equine Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics |Recent Messages | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Saddle and Tack Topics
 Tack Questions and Comments
 Back Cinch Question
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly
Next Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 2

ree7
Advanced Rider

USA
164 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2006 :  10:29:47 AM  Show Profile  Visit ree7's Homepage Send ree7 a Private Message
How tight should the back cinch be adjusted? I was always told to have it fairly loose (a hand should be able to slip between horse and cinch) but that always made me wonder, being so loose, how does that even affect the saddle stability at all? Last night on an RFD-TV show concerning mounted shooting, they emphasized and demonstrated tightening the back cinch, almost as tight as they did the front cinch.

My new horse (thankfully) has gained weight since I got him, and now his back cinch is way too tight, with no way to lengthen it. I will be having to purchase new back cinching, and need to know what length to get..... Ideas? Suggestions? How tight do you have your back cinch?

sharon
Advanced Rider



USA
232 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2006 :  11:49:40 AM  Show Profile Send sharon a Private Message
That's a good question, Ree. I am interested to read the responses. I think you will have to do what is best for the comfort of your horse. I have ridden many saddles with no rear cinching. I have seen some ridden so loose in the cinch that I wondered if the horse might step through it. I have had horses that when the cinch even touched their bellies, they would buck. What is the proper rigging? Heck if I really know. My next saddle with have 3/4 fire or similar to endurance rigging. It just makes better sense to me.

"You never know til you know for sure and even then its hard to tell."
Go to Top of Page

Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2006 :  11:55:27 AM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
You're right if it is loose it doesn't do anything but pose a safety risk. If it is loose things like sticks can get jammed into it. It will flop around and if loose enough they can get a back foot in. I think it was one of those funny video shows that had a clip with a horse that went down and that was the cause. Of course there was like two feet of air between the horse and flank girth so it was a huge problem. I know people that ride like that. They think that it's a bucking strap if too tight.

I don't snug mine as tight as the front but it's tight enough that even once I'm on the horse it isn't hanging or loose. But you have to do that in degrees so sometimes I have it longer for horses that are really use to it yet or if I don't know what they will do. The first time I went off a horse at a show(after about 10 years of showing) was when the horse I was riding in poles started to run. We made it a good way down before it started bucking. I had been swapping saddles between horses and forgot that the horse wasn't use to it being tight. I loosened it by a hole and no more bucking. The really runny thing was I went off twice that day in speed events and the only horse that didn't buck me off was the only one that I figured would buck. I guess I was making up for the years of not going off!
Go to Top of Page

Hook
Trail Boss (Moderator)



Canada
6115 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2006 :  2:25:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit Hook's Homepage Send Hook a Private Message
I have never used a back cinch and have never felt the need to use one. I think that the primary requirment to use a back cinch is if you are roping cows or maybe if you are doing a lot of trail riding with VERY steep down grades.

Hook(ed)......on Horses

"The best things in life are nearest: Breath in your nostrils, light in your eyes, flowers at your feet, duties at your hand, the path of right just before you. Then do not grasp at the stars, but do life's plain, common work as it comes, certain that daily duties and daily bread are the sweetest things in life. " Author: Robert Louis Stevenson
Go to Top of Page

Red Hawk
Clinician



USA
5092 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2006 :  3:12:04 PM  Show Profile Send Red Hawk a Private Message
Both my western saddles have slots for back cinches. I've had them so long that I can't remember if they came with one or not. I've ridden for years with only the front girth (I prefer neoprene) with no problems, and the only time my family rode with a back cinch on their saddles was for riding very steep hills.

"God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses"
--Robert Browning

Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
-- Author Unknown
Go to Top of Page

OnTheWay
Clinician

1433 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2006 :  3:58:26 PM  Show Profile Send OnTheWay a Private Message
I did see a blurb on RFD, however, that if you use a back cinch, to be SURE to use a strap in between back and front cinches. I don't know what these are called, but it's to prevent the back cinch from slipping into the flank area and whoever was showing it (Craig Cameron I think) was adamant that it be used, always. Also he mentioned not having the back cinch loose enough to get a foot or debris from trail caught which has been mentioned.
Go to Top of Page

Saddletramp
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
2546 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2006 :  5:41:36 PM  Show Profile  Visit Saddletramp's Homepage Send Saddletramp a Private Message
I *think* that it's called a "keeper"....the strap between the front and back cinch. (Which in my area is referred to as a girth, and the cinch being the strap that is tightened.)

-Saddletramp

"She never moved the stars from their courses,
but she loved a good man and she rode good horses"
Go to Top of Page

Red Hawk
Clinician



USA
5092 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2006 :  6:22:58 PM  Show Profile Send Red Hawk a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Saddletramp

I *think* that it's called a "keeper"....the strap between the front and back cinch. (Which in my area is referred to as a girth, and the cinch being the strap that is tightened.)



That's interesting, Saddle. I'm not that far from you, and I was taught that the one you tighten is the girth and the one in back is the cinch.

"God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses"
--Robert Browning

Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
-- Author Unknown
Go to Top of Page

ree7
Advanced Rider

USA
164 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2006 :  6:52:42 PM  Show Profile  Visit ree7's Homepage Send ree7 a Private Message
girth n. : 3. A strap encircling an animal's body in order to secure a load or saddle on its back; a cinch.

cinch n. : 1. A girth for a pack or saddle.

I guess the words "girth" and "cinch" are interchangeable. Like a lot of words, they will have different uses and meanings dependent on your location.

What I call a "back cinch" is called a "flank strap" here on horsesaddleshop.

Just sitting here remembering that particular tv show, and now thinking I know why they tightened the back cinch up so tight also. They used three saddle pads/blankets when saddling, because (not a direct quote, but close) "not all saddles will fit all horses." They demonstrated how secure the saddle was when the back cinch was extremely tight, then how the saddle slipped around with a loose back cinch. I'm thinking with that much padding to compensate for a non-fitting saddle, no wonder they had to tighten the back cinch down so hard. (And nope, it wasn't Craig Cameron.)

The Aussie saddle that I'm using has a back cinch, and I used it for a month before Cody gained some (much needed) weight. I removed it and have been riding without for a month. In the future we may have a few steep declines on trails, so at that point I will be sure to investigate replacing it. Good to know that some of you have ridden for years without a back cinch with no worries.

Thanks for the help!
Go to Top of Page

OnTheWay
Clinician

1433 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2006 :  8:00:03 PM  Show Profile Send OnTheWay a Private Message
LOL, I went through this discussion with my farrier. Around here anyway, a girth is what it's called if you ride English (the part tht goes around the belly), and a cinch is what it's called if you ride western saddle. If I have it right, the "off billet" is to English what a "tie strap" (or Latigo) is to Western. What I've never figured out is that if there's something called an OFF billet, then what the heck is a billet? Then, of course, there are (western) stirrups vs. (english) irons and bridles vs. head stalls. I forget what the two names are for chest thingamajigs, but all this can sure drive ya nuts when you're first looking at tack after 100 years.
Go to Top of Page

giddyupmorgan
Trainer



846 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2006 :  8:14:43 PM  Show Profile Send giddyupmorgan a Private Message
I feel a big sucking wind around this topic. We had a go round with this early on in this forums upstart.Way back in archive.
Kids say the part under the belly in front is a "girth". Right side of saddle uses what they call a "off billet". Left side would be the "cinch strap" therefor you would cinch up the saddle, unless you are a english rider then you would just(insert english accent) tighten the girth. The back one under the belly is a "flank cinch" Words of wisdom taken from 11yr old & 8 yr old to be taken with a grain of salt.
Yes the piece in the middle is a keeper that if it is left off will turn the flank cinch into a bucking strap. Three fingers on my left hand that go numb from time to time are proof positive.

Keeping The Kids In a Saddle and Out of Trouble
Giddyup
"Holy Moly I'll Buy What They're Selling" LJD (Get A Little Mud On The Tires)


Morgan's riding log
Go to Top of Page

Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2006 :  8:19:10 PM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
We call them Flank Girths and I remember in 4H they taught it that Western has Cinches and English has girths...but then again they also taught a number of other incorrect things like horses having 4 hocks, Double cremes are ablinos and that jointed curbs are snaffles?


A correctly used flank girth will help keep the saddle stable no matter what you are doing(roping, trail riding, etc). If you have a round horse that can be a great thing.
Go to Top of Page

giddyupmorgan
Trainer



846 Posts

Posted - 01/14/2006 :  8:30:33 PM  Show Profile Send giddyupmorgan a Private Message
Sea Hawks win Sea Hawks win OH wrong forum.

OTW, kids call it a breast plate/chest thingamajigs.

I don't think a english saddle uses a off billet cause they aready got them strapamagigs hooked to the saddle.

Keeping The Kids In a Saddle and Out of Trouble
Giddyup
"Holy Moly I'll Buy What They're Selling" LJD (Get A Little Mud On The Tires)


Morgan's riding log
Go to Top of Page

Red Hawk
Clinician



USA
5092 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2006 :  12:28:29 PM  Show Profile Send Red Hawk a Private Message
Okay, I gotta get my 2 cents worth in here, too. A bridle is everything that goes on the horse's head for riding purposes including a bit, reins, and headstall. Yep, the headstall is part of the bridle. That's the part minus the reins and the bit. Then if you want to break it down even farther, the headstall usually consists of 2 cheek peices, a crown piece, a throat latch, and a browband.

"God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses"
--Robert Browning

Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
-- Author Unknown

Edited by - Red Hawk on 01/15/2006 12:29:38 PM
Go to Top of Page

fracturedbones
Clinician



3424 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2006 :  12:30:23 PM  Show Profile  Visit fracturedbones's Homepage Send fracturedbones a Private Message
Remember the discussion! Clinician I saw on RFD TV said serves no purpose to stabilize saddle unless snug. Then you see all kinds of good riders having it in different positions. I'm guessing somewhere between buck strap snug and too loose for something to get caught. Nice feature for the rolly polly fjord.
Go to Top of Page

ree7
Advanced Rider

USA
164 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2006 :  6:36:21 PM  Show Profile  Visit ree7's Homepage Send ree7 a Private Message
I am fairly new here, and haven't looked through all the archives. Sorry if this topic has already been discussed.

Did go riding today, went up and down some pretty steep mountain grades with no saddle slippage or problems with it raising up in the back on a down-grade... so for now will forgo the back cinch.

Again, thank you all for your responses.
Go to Top of Page

sharon
Advanced Rider



USA
232 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2006 :  9:52:46 PM  Show Profile Send sharon a Private Message
WHOO HOO
PANTHERS WIN - PANTHERS WIN!
Oops, wrong forum.

Still an interesting topic, Ree. Thanks.

"You never know til you know for sure and even then its hard to tell."

Edited by - sharon on 01/15/2006 9:55:49 PM
Go to Top of Page

ree7
Advanced Rider

USA
164 Posts

Posted - 01/15/2006 :  10:15:07 PM  Show Profile  Visit ree7's Homepage Send ree7 a Private Message
I'm rather confused, I must confess. If there are so many topics that have already been discussed in the past, and if there has been strife concerning those topics.... to the point that nobody feels comfortable talking about things... won't that eventually end in a dead forum? One that newbies will be chided for bringing up "that old can of worms", and no longer feel comfortable asking even simple questions for fear of bringing up old arguments?

With a tip of my hat, I bid you all good-bye and good luck in all your pursuits.

Go to Top of Page

giddyupmorgan
Trainer



846 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2006 :  07:39:19 AM  Show Profile Send giddyupmorgan a Private Message
Ree, sorry if you misunderstood my post. The sucking wind sound I was talking about was the air leaving my lungs when I hit the ground after using a back cinch without the keeper. Some of the old members might remember my big wreck. The topic is a good one as it shows the different terminolgy around. The reason I said it was way back in the archive is because I tried to find it for reference but couldn't.

Again I'm sorry if you took my dry humor wrong.

Keeping The Kids In a Saddle and Out of Trouble
Giddyup
"Holy Moly I'll Buy What They're Selling" LJD (Get A Little Mud On The Tires)


Morgan's riding log
Go to Top of Page

Hook
Trail Boss (Moderator)



Canada
6115 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2006 :  07:41:37 AM  Show Profile  Visit Hook's Homepage Send Hook a Private Message
Ree;

Please reconsider.
I don't think this forum is any different than any other group discussion. Some ideas will be different, some will be helpful and some will not. Sometimes the topic will shift and it is up to the more experienced members to help get it back on track. My experience on the forum has been mostly positive. I particpate because I think that after 40 years or so with horses I have something to contribute to those with questions and think the answers will help them in their dealings with horses.

I also have some fun and the experience of getting to know the other members through their interaction on the Forum is also rewarding for me.

I do not believe that we have any members who intentionally show any disrespect for new members and any topic is treated seriously.

Hook(ed)......on Horses

"The best things in life are nearest: Breath in your nostrils, light in your eyes, flowers at your feet, duties at your hand, the path of right just before you. Then do not grasp at the stars, but do life's plain, common work as it comes, certain that daily duties and daily bread are the sweetest things in life. " Author: Robert Louis Stevenson
Go to Top of Page

fracturedbones
Clinician



3424 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2006 :  1:30:40 PM  Show Profile  Visit fracturedbones's Homepage Send fracturedbones a Private Message
Ree

Don't think anyone minds bringing up old topics. Heck, some topics with hot discussions end up in threads so buried, you couldn't find where all the flack came from scrolling through archives anyway!!!

Other thing...as we all listen to other's viewpoints, rationale and then maybe try out something new from changing ideas or learning fromothers...heck....we all can change our minds and have another flaming discussion!!!!

So discuss whatever you want!!
Go to Top of Page

ree7
Advanced Rider

USA
164 Posts

Posted - 01/16/2006 :  8:08:48 PM  Show Profile  Visit ree7's Homepage Send ree7 a Private Message
thank you for clarifying
Go to Top of Page

goodhorse
Tenderfoot

2 Posts

Posted - 01/20/2006 :  10:46:36 PM  Show Profile  Visit goodhorse's Homepage Send goodhorse a Private Message
I would like to add that I don't use the back cinch on my western saddles because it interferes with the horse getting my leg signals. If I kick, push heel in, almost anything, I am hitting that rear cinch. Without the cinch, I have very good control of horse rear end, for sidepassing, canter depart. He can feel the leg gently applied.

When I did use the back cinch, we ALWAYS had a connecting strap between the front and rear cinches/girths. Back cinch is always hooked second when saddling up, undone first when unsaddling. I have seen a couple pretty awful wrecks with not using a connector strap/string between cinches. Other wrecks with folks loosening the front girth without removing the rear cinch first. Yes it does add time, 20 seconds or so, ungirthing the rear first. Then loosening the front girth for lunch or whatever standing around horse is going to do.

I have not used the rear cinch in many years. I don't rope things on any kind of regular basis, so that rear cinch was just in my way. We have tall hills at home, rear cinch not really needed for trail riding. I also used that saddle out in Montana, Wyoming mountains, never had a problem with saddle flipping up in back.

I do always use a Y breast collar with saddle, safety feature for me. I try to check my girth regularly, sometimes forget later on all day rides. Kids often forget 3rd rechecks, still learning. All our horses are required by me, to wear a breast collar or hunting breast plate(English model) when out riding. Breast collar allows a little slip sideways, prevents total saddle turnover. Saved us on more than one occasion.

Billets on English saddle were mentioned. They are the straps that girth buckles onto. Off billet would be horse right side, near billet is left side.

Go to Top of Page

Red Hawk
Clinician



USA
5092 Posts

Posted - 01/21/2006 :  12:59:28 PM  Show Profile Send Red Hawk a Private Message
I haven't used a back cinch in years on my saddle and have ridden up & down some pretty steep hills. I agree that mountains are larger and taller than hills, but I'm betting I can find hills right here in Indiana just as steep as any mountain trail.

Now, that I've said that, we used to have problems when I was a kid from keeping the saddle sliding forward and tipping almost upright on one pony's neck. It's been way too long to remember details as to why this happened, but a back cinch solved the problem.

These hills we used to ride (they are not legal to ride anymore) averaged about 50 or 60 feet in height, and the only way for a horse to make it down them was to slide down on his rear! It wasn't unusual to see our horses come back to camp after a ride with solid brown patches of dried mud covering their rears from above the tail on down. Going up was a challenge, too. There was no way your horse could've walked up these hills. They had to get a good running start and lunge all the way up them, or we never would've reached the top.

Like I said; they might not have been near as high as riding in the mountains, but I'm betting they were just as challenging.

"God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses"
--Robert Browning

Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
-- Author Unknown
Go to Top of Page

qhrider
Tenderfoot



11 Posts

Posted - 01/23/2006 :  12:36:28 PM  Show Profile  Visit qhrider's Homepage Send qhrider a Private Message
[quote]Originally posted by giddyupmorgan

unless you are a english rider then you would just(insert english accent) tighten the girth.
[quote]

Funny, because riding WESTERN for 25 years, I am secure enough in my knowledge to use girth and cinch interchangeably. True, 'cinch' is mostly used in western context, but not always. Check some saddle websites and see don't they use both terms for a 'cinch'. I have come to realize that one person's terminology is not 'the written word'. If I want to tighten my girth with my 'tie strap' (as it is also called), I will. Let me guess, english riders (insert accent here) have tie straps on their saddles? I think not.
Go to Top of Page

giddyupmorgan
Trainer



846 Posts

Posted - 01/23/2006 :  5:20:51 PM  Show Profile Send giddyupmorgan a Private Message
Huh

Is there no more humor left in this world

Dag-nab-it my finger is on the trigger I just can't pull it.

Keeping The Kids In a Saddle and Out of Trouble
Giddyup
"Holy Moly I'll Buy What They're Selling" LJD (Get A Little Mud On The Tires)


Morgan's riding log

Edited by - giddyupmorgan on 01/23/2006 5:44:10 PM
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Next Page
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Daily Equine Forum © 2000-2002 Snitz Communications Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.11 seconds. Snitz Forums 2000