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hoofnit
Tenderfoot

USA
8 Posts

Posted - 01/03/2006 :  8:55:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit hoofnit's Homepage Send hoofnit a Private Message
Hi I am new to the forum and have never even joined one before so if I do this wrong I am sorry.... I have been what I call myself as a backyard rider for about 19yrs now. I got my first horse (Arabian Mare) a little over 19yrs ago. She forgot more about riding then I will probably ever know. She was the horse that everyone hated except me. She was a sway backed bad tempered and she hated other horses anywhere near her. God I loved that horse... I got her when she was 10yrs old and she died at 27 yrs old, July two years ago...( I kept her to the last breath). Any way I have had several horses since and all had been trained prior to buying them. I had the great fortune to buy a Paso Fino Mare with her three month old fillie (Both are tobiano pinto's). The mare had only been trained to lead and have her feet done. The fillie had never been handled at all. I have now had both for 7 months . Cherokee (mare) is by far the sweetest,most willing and smartest horse I have ever seen.. (not that I am partial or anything. Any way the reason for this post is I have never started a horse on my own from ground before and I have been reading this forum and see that the people here are really friendly and show alot of experience that they are willing to share. So I thought I would see if I could pick some brains so to speak. I have been doing alot of ground work with her, ie.. side passing, backing, STOPPING ( my fav cue) walking on a lunge line... She took a saddle and a bit like she had been tacted up every day of her life... ( did a mention she was smart? .) She even let me get on her, she just turned around to see what in the world was on her back. She is 7yrs old and very calm. Not a big spooker.. Not much shakes her up so I do not want to push her too fast and mess her up. I was going to have someone else train her but given how willing she is I want to give it a try on my own. To date I have been on her back 3 times. So far I just have the bit in her mouth but contect the reins to her halter. She will walk on leg and verbal cues, turn right and left as well as my fav cue.... whoa on comand as well and sitting back in the seat and squeezing with my knees. I have books big on horses but I have found that I learn better when I can ask questions and be able to get answer from someone who knows more then I do..

I am not interested in competing at all. I just love riding in the woods so I want her to be a trail horse. She is a till death do us part horse so training her for show is not an intrest for me.

Thank you for your input in advance

Cindy

ps.. Savannah is just like her mom... I can do pretty much anything with her as far as ground training... I have started asking her to side, lead, stop, and back up.. I do not ask her to spend alot of time doing it as I do not want to sour her... I have never had a baby before so I am nervous as to how much to ask her to learn...

Cindy

Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2006 :  12:23:02 AM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
What type of input are you looking for? I'll be honest I'm not a fan of a green rider/trainer working with a green horse unless they have help right there. But that is from years of working with the horses that tend to come out of these cases. A lot of times it doesn't end up pretty and it is the horse that pays the price not the human that caused it. It's like driving a car. Most adults can get in and drive a car but most of them can't put one together. There is a lot more to getting a well trained horse then getting on and going. So many little steps that you don't see in the finished horse but benefit from. And many times a hole can be made and not caught until weeks later when you try to build on the foundation and it turns to dust. I'm not saying it can't work, some end up with good basic trained horses but what I am saying is that it would be best to have help right there. Not someone else training if that isn't want you want but someone there guiding you through the steps to make sure you don't leave holes. You have two things going for you, Laid back horses and a willing to ask questions. It's up to you to get help but that is my first piece of information that I would give to anyone that was green asking about training a green horse. It's not meant to be mean or to tell you you can't do it.

My second piece is to stay safe. Even the most laid back horses can hurt you. In fact more people are hurt by horses that have be laid back and they trust then ones they don't. No matter how laid back a horse seems they are still animals and in this case green too.

What have you done so far? Have you stacked her out? Worked on yielding her body? Giving to the bit? Bending and flexing? Have you just walked on the lunge line? What about backing? Has she learned to lower her head? Have you done work on keeping her out of your space? Work with things like cones, logs, barrels, etc? Ground work is good but not all ground work is good and sometimes it isn't done enough or not to the degree that it needs to be.
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Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2006 :  12:23:02 AM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
What type of input are you looking for? I'll be honest I'm not a fan of a green rider/trainer working with a green horse unless they have help right there. But that is from years of working with the horses that tend to come out of these cases. A lot of times it doesn't end up pretty and it is the horse that pays the price not the human that caused it. It's like driving a car. Most adults can get in and drive a car but most of them can't put one together. There is a lot more to getting a well trained horse then getting on and going. So many little steps that you don't see in the finished horse but benefit from. And many times a hole can be made and not caught until weeks later when you try to build on the foundation and it turns to dust. I'm not saying it can't work, some end up with good basic trained horses but what I am saying is that it would be best to have help right there. Not someone else training if that isn't want you want but someone there guiding you through the steps to make sure you don't leave holes. You have two things going for you, Laid back horses and a willing to ask questions. It's up to you to get help but that is my first piece of information that I would give to anyone that was green asking about training a green horse. It's not meant to be mean or to tell you you can't do it.

My second piece is to stay safe. Even the most laid back horses can hurt you. In fact more people are hurt by horses that have be laid back and they trust then ones they don't. No matter how laid back a horse seems they are still animals and in this case green too.

What have you done so far? Have you stacked her out? Worked on yielding her body? Giving to the bit? Bending and flexing? Have you just walked on the lunge line? What about backing? Has she learned to lower her head? Have you done work on keeping her out of your space? Work with things like cones, logs, barrels, etc? Ground work is good but not all ground work is good and sometimes it isn't done enough or not to the degree that it needs to be.
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Dixiesmom
Beginning Rider



145 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2006 :  01:25:57 AM  Show Profile  Visit Dixiesmom's Homepage Send Dixiesmom a Private Message
Hoofnit, I am 36yrs old and have been riding since I was 14, but had never broke a horse to ride till I got Dixie. So if I can do it, you can too, just take things slowly and you will be fine. I got Dixie when she was a yearling and started her ground work right away, so dont worry about working with Savannah TOO MUCH. There is no such thing as too much IMO. The more she is exposed to the better. As for the mare, Cherokee, do ALOT of ground work before riding. That is what I did and it made the transition to riding very easy. Go ahead and put the reins on the bit and start teaching her to give to the bit on both sides. Stand on one side, grab the rein about 2 feet from the bit and move your hand up to her withers asking her to bend. Hold your hand on her withers until she gives and dont release the pressure till she does, even if she only gives an inch. Do that on both sides until she is flexing and giving to the bit softly consistantly. Also get her going in all 3 gaits on the lunge line on voice command. Make her change direction alot, dont just go in circles. If you can get any John Lyons or Clinton Anderson training tapes or books that will help you alot. I refer to them all the time. Good luck!!

Melissa

Dixie--black & white paint mare, 3yrs in April
Pete--roan missouri foxtrotter gelding, 21yrs in April
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Dixiesmom
Beginning Rider



145 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2006 :  01:25:57 AM  Show Profile  Visit Dixiesmom's Homepage Send Dixiesmom a Private Message
Hoofnit, I am 36yrs old and have been riding since I was 14, but had never broke a horse to ride till I got Dixie. So if I can do it, you can too, just take things slowly and you will be fine. I got Dixie when she was a yearling and started her ground work right away, so dont worry about working with Savannah TOO MUCH. There is no such thing as too much IMO. The more she is exposed to the better. As for the mare, Cherokee, do ALOT of ground work before riding. That is what I did and it made the transition to riding very easy. Go ahead and put the reins on the bit and start teaching her to give to the bit on both sides. Stand on one side, grab the rein about 2 feet from the bit and move your hand up to her withers asking her to bend. Hold your hand on her withers until she gives and dont release the pressure till she does, even if she only gives an inch. Do that on both sides until she is flexing and giving to the bit softly consistantly. Also get her going in all 3 gaits on the lunge line on voice command. Make her change direction alot, dont just go in circles. If you can get any John Lyons or Clinton Anderson training tapes or books that will help you alot. I refer to them all the time. Good luck!!

Melissa

Dixie--black & white paint mare, 3yrs in April
Pete--roan missouri foxtrotter gelding, 21yrs in April
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hoofnit
Tenderfoot

USA
8 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2006 :  08:38:57 AM  Show Profile  Visit hoofnit's Homepage Send hoofnit a Private Message
Stormie, thank you for your words of wisdom... I agree with you completely on the horse is the one that gets hurt when a novice tries to train a green horse. This is why I wanted to join this forum and see if I can't benefit from the experience I have seen here. I was on the sheriff's office mounted unit for over 3 yrs (graduated from Fiddler's Green Mounted Academy) so I am very familiar with what can happen when a horse spooks out from under you when you think you are on a bomb proof horse. (A fellow deputy broke her back when she came off of her "very safe" bomb proof horse..) This was the same horse that would stand without flinching when a helicopter would land next to us... I have also seen how fast a horse can turn and bolt when a dirt bike comes out of now where and right at you... I still to this day do not know how I stayed on.... I also think that you can over load a horse with too much and that is what I do not want to do to Cherokee. I had an Arabian Guelding that was trained when I got him... He was great on the ground... could not ask for better.. but under tack and he was very spooky and liked to spin out from under you when something would startle him... I took him to a trainer (cost me over $600 for 30 days)and did not see any difference when I brought him home.. He would still spin out from under you if something spooked him... He was good, not so much as a movement of the ear before he would spin... His last owner/trainer was dumped a few times by him and the last time she thought he broke her hip. She was laid up for several weeks as a result. I am 47 and have found that the ground has not gotten any softer the older I get.. He got me once and even though he was only 14.2 hds that was a long enough fall to hurt good... When the trainer tried to put a bit in his mouth, he stood straight up and took out one side of the barn the cross ties where in. I spent the afternoon replacing the boards to the wall... It took me over six months to get him to take the bit without fighting me. I do not know what caused this reaction in him so I did not want to cause Cherokee to be bit sour as a result of me pushing her to fast with the bit and hurting her. This is why I have not tried to get her to yield to the bit yet. I have just been putting it in her mouth and then connecting the reins to the halter under the bridle. How long does she need to have to get used to the bit before getting her to start yeilding to it?

Around here it is a whole lot easier to find a bad trainer then it is to find a good one. I have found that the good ones are very expensive (well worth it) but only seem to want to work with show prospects. Not to say that there aren't any around, I just don't know of any. My last trainer was over 2 hours north to me and is no longer able to train for what I need. I call him as often as I can but he is from the old school and believes you just get on and ride everywhere. He is in his mid 80's and now just finishes them not starting them...

As far as the ground work I have her side passing on her front when I touch her in front of the girth and on the rear end when touching behind the girth. she will back when I touch her chest and ask her to back. she will walk and stop on comand on the lounge line.. She is 7yrs old and was born and raised on a ranch so is sacked out big time when it comes to heavy equipment, large trucks , shooting guns, four wheelers ext...... I am a firm believer in really good ground manners... I have been hurt more often there then in the saddle...so I have spent the last 7 months really focusing on that... I just started lounging her about a month ago and not everyday. Because she is not afraid of cracking noises the lounge whip gets no reaction from her.. She just looks at me.... So I tried the waving of the lounge line behind her and asking her to walk to get her started... that is how I was able to get her to walk on comand then I step in front of her when I ask her to stop and she has caught on to what I am asking of her.. The problem is... how do I get her to trot, canter without chasing her like and nutcase to get her going... I tried the double lounge lines but that did nothing but confuse her so she just stood there...so I went back to the single line. I thought about ponying her with my TB (he was my mounted horse for the S.O.) but I have read that you only want a person trained in doing this to attempt it. Jake has never ponyed another horse (nor hav I)and even though he is "bomb proof" I do not trust a disaster will not happen if I try this... I am big on the better safe then sorry rule.... I have barrels as well as cones... I was thinking of using PVC pipes in place of logs.... how far into the training should I attempt using them. I do not want to leave out the holes as you called it to come back and bite me later...

Thank you Dixiesmom for the encouragement I really appreciate it.. I will take your advise and take things slow.. I will try what you suggested with the bit... I do have several of John Lyons books and I love alot of what he does when training . lately I have heard alot of people talking about Clinton Anderson but have not seen anything on him. I will look for him and check him out.. thank you both for your input and I hope to be able to get more from you in the future.

Cindy

Cindy
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hoofnit
Tenderfoot

USA
8 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2006 :  08:38:57 AM  Show Profile  Visit hoofnit's Homepage Send hoofnit a Private Message
Stormie, thank you for your words of wisdom... I agree with you completely on the horse is the one that gets hurt when a novice tries to train a green horse. This is why I wanted to join this forum and see if I can't benefit from the experience I have seen here. I was on the sheriff's office mounted unit for over 3 yrs (graduated from Fiddler's Green Mounted Academy) so I am very familiar with what can happen when a horse spooks out from under you when you think you are on a bomb proof horse. (A fellow deputy broke her back when she came off of her "very safe" bomb proof horse..) This was the same horse that would stand without flinching when a helicopter would land next to us... I have also seen how fast a horse can turn and bolt when a dirt bike comes out of now where and right at you... I still to this day do not know how I stayed on.... I also think that you can over load a horse with too much and that is what I do not want to do to Cherokee. I had an Arabian Guelding that was trained when I got him... He was great on the ground... could not ask for better.. but under tack and he was very spooky and liked to spin out from under you when something would startle him... I took him to a trainer (cost me over $600 for 30 days)and did not see any difference when I brought him home.. He would still spin out from under you if something spooked him... He was good, not so much as a movement of the ear before he would spin... His last owner/trainer was dumped a few times by him and the last time she thought he broke her hip. She was laid up for several weeks as a result. I am 47 and have found that the ground has not gotten any softer the older I get.. He got me once and even though he was only 14.2 hds that was a long enough fall to hurt good... When the trainer tried to put a bit in his mouth, he stood straight up and took out one side of the barn the cross ties where in. I spent the afternoon replacing the boards to the wall... It took me over six months to get him to take the bit without fighting me. I do not know what caused this reaction in him so I did not want to cause Cherokee to be bit sour as a result of me pushing her to fast with the bit and hurting her. This is why I have not tried to get her to yield to the bit yet. I have just been putting it in her mouth and then connecting the reins to the halter under the bridle. How long does she need to have to get used to the bit before getting her to start yeilding to it?

Around here it is a whole lot easier to find a bad trainer then it is to find a good one. I have found that the good ones are very expensive (well worth it) but only seem to want to work with show prospects. Not to say that there aren't any around, I just don't know of any. My last trainer was over 2 hours north to me and is no longer able to train for what I need. I call him as often as I can but he is from the old school and believes you just get on and ride everywhere. He is in his mid 80's and now just finishes them not starting them...

As far as the ground work I have her side passing on her front when I touch her in front of the girth and on the rear end when touching behind the girth. she will back when I touch her chest and ask her to back. she will walk and stop on comand on the lounge line.. She is 7yrs old and was born and raised on a ranch so is sacked out big time when it comes to heavy equipment, large trucks , shooting guns, four wheelers ext...... I am a firm believer in really good ground manners... I have been hurt more often there then in the saddle...so I have spent the last 7 months really focusing on that... I just started lounging her about a month ago and not everyday. Because she is not afraid of cracking noises the lounge whip gets no reaction from her.. She just looks at me.... So I tried the waving of the lounge line behind her and asking her to walk to get her started... that is how I was able to get her to walk on comand then I step in front of her when I ask her to stop and she has caught on to what I am asking of her.. The problem is... how do I get her to trot, canter without chasing her like and nutcase to get her going... I tried the double lounge lines but that did nothing but confuse her so she just stood there...so I went back to the single line. I thought about ponying her with my TB (he was my mounted horse for the S.O.) but I have read that you only want a person trained in doing this to attempt it. Jake has never ponyed another horse (nor hav I)and even though he is "bomb proof" I do not trust a disaster will not happen if I try this... I am big on the better safe then sorry rule.... I have barrels as well as cones... I was thinking of using PVC pipes in place of logs.... how far into the training should I attempt using them. I do not want to leave out the holes as you called it to come back and bite me later...

Thank you Dixiesmom for the encouragement I really appreciate it.. I will take your advise and take things slow.. I will try what you suggested with the bit... I do have several of John Lyons books and I love alot of what he does when training . lately I have heard alot of people talking about Clinton Anderson but have not seen anything on him. I will look for him and check him out.. thank you both for your input and I hope to be able to get more from you in the future.

Cindy

Cindy
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Red Hawk
Clinician



USA
5092 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2006 :  11:20:44 AM  Show Profile Send Red Hawk a Private Message
It would help a lot if you can read your horse's body language. Horses are basically lazy and would like nothing better than to be turned out with a buddy or two in a nice grassy pasture and left alone. Untrained horses will do their best, sometimes, to get out of what you are trying to get them to do simply because they don't want to do it. This is where reading body language comes in so you can tell the signs that the horse is going to try and avoid what you want by doing something else. The trick is to catch them in this before it ever develops and they have avoided what you were asking in the first place. It's called anticipation. If it's not possibly to anticipate when the horse is going to do something wrong, then it become very hard to teach the horse anything.

I know you've probably heard this many, many times, but try to make what the horse wants to do difficult and what you want him to do easy. This included ground work, riding, or even just everyday stuff like leading to & from the pasture, grooming, standing in the stall with him, etc. A good place to start would be making the horse respect your space at all times and never allowing him to show dominance over you such as making you move out of his way, rubbing his head on you or shoving you around with it, not moving away from you when you ask him to or standing patiently away from you until you tell him it's okay to come up to you. All these things helps the horse respect you and accept you as the boss and #1 in the pecking order. This must be established before anything else. Once the horse learns to rely on you for guidance and reassurance that he's not going to be hurt, then is the time to start training him to ride... not before.

You may think your horse is already there, and she may be, but spend time watching her little suble movements, learn the signs she's giving you as to mood and who is really in charge. Watch how she acts with the filly, when she's by herself, or anytime you are working around her or with her. You'll be amazed at all the little things you'll pick up on her personality and her temperament that you may have never noticed. Once you know these things, you can use them to your advantage when training her.

One last thing; Your gelding that you said disliked the bit so much could very well have been badly abused by a severe bit, one that was adjusted wrong and caused him pain, or a rider with very rough hands... or any combination of these things. I've seen a horse deathly afraid of the bit due to the owner not knowing anything about how to properly adjust it. I've seen many riders almost saw their horse's mouth in two while kicking him to go. When the horse didn't go faster, the rider smacked the horse in the side of the head and called him stupid... never realizing that he caused the whole thing. So, it's hard telling what happened in your gelding's past to make him so afraid of the bit.

Since your mare has never been harmed with a bit, it shouldn't scare her in the least. I'd start out with a simple O-ring or D-ring snaffle bit. Once she's ready for the reins to be attached, I'd start from the ground and apply very light pressure to either side and also the get her to give her nose by lowering it or tucking it toward her chest. At the first little give, release the pressure and praise her. Then build on this gradually and over several days until she is turning her head to either side and lowering her head maybe about a foot from where she carries it normally. Don't make her tuck her head any more than when her face is perpendicular (sp?) to the ground. Anymore than that and she will be evading bit pressure instead of giving to it.

Keep reading those John Lyons books along with watching some of his videos or those of Clinton Anderson. If it's possible, it would help if you could participate in some horse clinics by reputable trainers that know their stuff.

"God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses"
--Robert Browning

Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
-- Author Unknown
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Red Hawk
Clinician



USA
5092 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2006 :  11:20:44 AM  Show Profile Send Red Hawk a Private Message
It would help a lot if you can read your horse's body language. Horses are basically lazy and would like nothing better than to be turned out with a buddy or two in a nice grassy pasture and left alone. Untrained horses will do their best, sometimes, to get out of what you are trying to get them to do simply because they don't want to do it. This is where reading body language comes in so you can tell the signs that the horse is going to try and avoid what you want by doing something else. The trick is to catch them in this before it ever develops and they have avoided what you were asking in the first place. It's called anticipation. If it's not possibly to anticipate when the horse is going to do something wrong, then it become very hard to teach the horse anything.

I know you've probably heard this many, many times, but try to make what the horse wants to do difficult and what you want him to do easy. This included ground work, riding, or even just everyday stuff like leading to & from the pasture, grooming, standing in the stall with him, etc. A good place to start would be making the horse respect your space at all times and never allowing him to show dominance over you such as making you move out of his way, rubbing his head on you or shoving you around with it, not moving away from you when you ask him to or standing patiently away from you until you tell him it's okay to come up to you. All these things helps the horse respect you and accept you as the boss and #1 in the pecking order. This must be established before anything else. Once the horse learns to rely on you for guidance and reassurance that he's not going to be hurt, then is the time to start training him to ride... not before.

You may think your horse is already there, and she may be, but spend time watching her little suble movements, learn the signs she's giving you as to mood and who is really in charge. Watch how she acts with the filly, when she's by herself, or anytime you are working around her or with her. You'll be amazed at all the little things you'll pick up on her personality and her temperament that you may have never noticed. Once you know these things, you can use them to your advantage when training her.

One last thing; Your gelding that you said disliked the bit so much could very well have been badly abused by a severe bit, one that was adjusted wrong and caused him pain, or a rider with very rough hands... or any combination of these things. I've seen a horse deathly afraid of the bit due to the owner not knowing anything about how to properly adjust it. I've seen many riders almost saw their horse's mouth in two while kicking him to go. When the horse didn't go faster, the rider smacked the horse in the side of the head and called him stupid... never realizing that he caused the whole thing. So, it's hard telling what happened in your gelding's past to make him so afraid of the bit.

Since your mare has never been harmed with a bit, it shouldn't scare her in the least. I'd start out with a simple O-ring or D-ring snaffle bit. Once she's ready for the reins to be attached, I'd start from the ground and apply very light pressure to either side and also the get her to give her nose by lowering it or tucking it toward her chest. At the first little give, release the pressure and praise her. Then build on this gradually and over several days until she is turning her head to either side and lowering her head maybe about a foot from where she carries it normally. Don't make her tuck her head any more than when her face is perpendicular (sp?) to the ground. Anymore than that and she will be evading bit pressure instead of giving to it.

Keep reading those John Lyons books along with watching some of his videos or those of Clinton Anderson. If it's possible, it would help if you could participate in some horse clinics by reputable trainers that know their stuff.

"God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses"
--Robert Browning

Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
-- Author Unknown
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fracturedbones
Clinician



3424 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2006 :  12:23:39 PM  Show Profile  Visit fracturedbones's Homepage Send fracturedbones a Private Message
Saddletramp has experience training a broodmare to be a riding horse....Saddle??????

Stormie has good points, but sounds like you have your share of experience with horses and sense to know where to get the answers and help where needed. If you have RFD TV you can probably catch one of Clinton's segments. He has a foal training series. I've seen him work in clinic and some of his shows, it looks good and toned down for the young ones.

Welcome to DE and best of luck to you. When do we see pics???
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fracturedbones
Clinician



3424 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2006 :  12:23:39 PM  Show Profile  Visit fracturedbones's Homepage Send fracturedbones a Private Message
Saddletramp has experience training a broodmare to be a riding horse....Saddle??????

Stormie has good points, but sounds like you have your share of experience with horses and sense to know where to get the answers and help where needed. If you have RFD TV you can probably catch one of Clinton's segments. He has a foal training series. I've seen him work in clinic and some of his shows, it looks good and toned down for the young ones.

Welcome to DE and best of luck to you. When do we see pics???
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Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2006 :  12:58:24 PM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
It sounds like you are taking it too slow in some things and rushing in others. She doesn't sound ready to be on her back even though she handles it. If you can't get more then a walk on the longe line she isn't listening to you or respecting you. If you can't get yeilding to the bit(or halter) then she isn't ready for steering yet. If you can't move her body without touching her she isn't ready for a rider yet. These are things that you might not think important and probably weren't with a broke horse but with a green one is it.

For the gelding I agree it could have been past abuse, or just mouth pain, it's not really a sign of them being pushed to quickly with a bit. Most horses take to a bit quickly and quietly if the person doing the training does it right, starting out with sacking the horse out with it, teaching them to open their open, lower the head, yeild the head, etc. When done right you can start on yielding the same day the horse first takes the bit. For the one with spinning problem, 30 days is a drop in the bucket. 30 days isn't even enough to get a good solid start on training and when you are dealing with a problem it really isn't enough because the horse has unlearn and then relearn it correctly. You don't have to send her out to a trainer or even have a 'trainer' just someone that knows what they are doing to help so that you don't rush her on something, take too big of steps, or go to slow.

Going too slow can be just as bad as going too fast. It opens the door for the animal to develop problems, laziness being one of them, bad habits, unwilling to learn, a whole list of issues can come for it.

She is use to things liek 4 wheelers but had you sacking her out with things like the bridle? the whip, blankets, etc. Even if you think the horse has had it before and seems okay with these things it is important to do these. It helps to build respect and trust but also makes sure that the horse has had it done. Sacking out that hard to bridle gelding's head with a rope, halter and bridle would have helped him greatly. Even older well broke horses should have a refresher from time to time on is.

Having her use to the crack of the whip is good but she needs to learn to move when she hears it.....no what she needs to do is learn when to stand and when to move from cues of it. It is good that it doesn't bug her but now you need to condition her to more when you use the whip as part of cuing her to move forward. Ideally it isn't a crack of the whip or waving it around that would cue her just a raise of the whip, a turn to the hip and a step if needed.

For lunging I have found that the easiest way to teach it is to first teach a go foward cue with the whip. A tap on the hindquarters. This is also helpful with trailer loading, in hand trail, and even later on when riding. From there you go to basic lunging stuff. Keeping the horse close to you not out on the line. Just close enough that you can reach out with a short whip to give the go forward cue. Walk straigth with the horse next to you crop in the hand closest to the horse, line in the other hand. You stop and cue the horse forward around you in a half circle and then walk straight again. As the builds trust in moving without you it can be built up to a full cirlce and then a number of circles together and then farther out from you. The main focus at first is on walk and halt. Once the horse is good at that with it out on the line, bring him back close enough to you that you have contral but the circle is big enough to trot on. Get the horse walking forward and cue them to move faster with your voice, body, and whip cues. Push them until you get some speed and then release pressure. Repeat until the horse gets it. Sometimes they break into a canter but if the circle is smaller they can't canter that well, just halt them and then start out at a walk do some halts and try again.

Moving the body should not require you to touch her. She should respect you enough to move without you haveing to touch her with your hand or whip. Watch a group of horses. When the boss horse walks over they move before the boss does anything to make contact. That is what you need out of her. The Respect that she is willing to move away from you, out of your space or in the direction you want when you ask just by body movements, no touching. This should be covered before riding so that you have the respect. If you don't have respect and trust on the ground you will never have it in the saddle.

You did say if you have her yielding to the halter. Since that is what you are using to steer from she needs to know it, actually they all need to know to yield to the halter from the start of training. It's one of the first things they should learn. A horse that yields to the halter is less likely to develop problems like pulling back when tied, pulling on the handler when leading, ect. She should be light enough to the halter that she gives quietly and quickly. Since she has had the bit on for a few times now she can start witht he bit on yielding also. This conditioning is what gives you contral with the bridle/halter. Without it the contral is not really a contral and one day will fail.

If you where an owner I was working with I would take you back to ground work and fill in the holes you left. Work on respect and contral. Contral is so important and a big mistake is that people think that if they can do the basics of caring for the animal without problem they have contral. That isn't always true. Sometimes you can go for years with that basic contral without problem and then have it pop up because the horse's foundation training had holes and contral was not really their. A lot of problems are caused because of this. Like having probles with shots, deworming, moving around, pulling back, head butting, hard to catch. It isn't just the rearing, bucking, bolting, spinning, etc that is the signs of a poorly trained horse. I have helped farriers before and I can't believe the stuff that owners thing is 'good for farrier'. The owners did not see it as a problem but it was a huge sign that the horse needed work and that they didn't have the contral they thought. Once you had the respect on the ground. Can sack her out, have her move when/where/how you ask, stand when you ask, lunge(three gaits, change speed in gaits, halt, and change cirlce size/direction), have her yielding to the halter and bit then start back with the riding. Taking it slow is good but right now you are taking some things slow and then moving into steps that shouldn't be taken until those things are done.

Horses can be over loaded with training but that is when you move too quickly into steps the horse is not ready for, mainly when the baby steps that lead up to it where not finished or skipped completely. Like a rider just putting a bit on the horse without sacking out the head complete with the bridle first, or teaching him to lower his head and open his mouth when asked. If each of those steps are done correctly the horse could be in the bit in just a day or so. That would not be over load or moving too quickly as long as each step was completed. Even your weaning could be far enough along to be at the step if you do all of the rest of it. By the age of your baby my babies can:
Walk, trot, halt, stand, back,, yield to the halter, yield the forehand, hind quarters, sidepass, halfpass, square up, tie to just about every safe tie place I have including the trailer, load and unload from the trailer, stand in the trailer when the doors are closed, back from and walk out of the trailer, stand inside and out of the trailer when the doors are opened and closed, they are sacked out with all kinds of things, walked and ponied around the pen and yard and even on trail rides. Do in hand trail stuff with traps, bridges, water, poles, jumps, barrles, cones, jugs, tires, hoses, mail boxes, anything I can find. They bath, clip, pick up feet, stand for the vet and farrier. Are use to kids, dogs, tractors, 4 wheelers, cats, cattle, etc. Some have been to 2 or more shows, both to just hang out and to show in halter(Jazz has been showing since she was 3 months old). They have the start of lunging but not the cirlces yet or just one circle at a time. They have been in the round pen and worked in there slowly. Not only can I play with them other people can play with them and handle them. They are calm, easy to work with. Are use to blankets, sheets, saddle pads, sursingles, some have had rope put in their mouth like bits. You can walk out in the big field and catch. They go away from mom(as young as a month, sometimes younger depending on the mare and foal) and have their lessons or mom can leave them and have her lesson. Basily I can do just about anything with them I want and have them stay calm. They trust me and respect me as boss mare. For as much as I do with them by the time they are your fillies age they are not pushed. Lessons are short, building on each one. I never push them any farther they can handle but I push them as far as they can go. With all of this they handle it just fine. As yearlings every is the same plus with with the bridle/bit, acutal lunging, long lining(I think what you saying with two lines), ground driving(from a sidepull not bit), and even a saddle. They are shown more this year in halter, taken on more trail walks by themselves(even the weanlings can go by themselves). I don't ride until they are 3 so a lot of this I could spread out more but I don't see why as long as they can handle it. You aren't pushing the filly too much. A lot of what you need to do with the mare can also be done with the filly and then she is old enough to ride you won't have to worry about teaching those things to her.

I like the stopping cues too. I teach mine to ground tie also and I get a lot of ohhs and ahhs when I can take a horse and lunge it up to the canter and have them stop and dead. Then I can drop the line and walk away and know they will still be there when I come back. Not that I always leave a 35 foot line on a loose horse but I can do it. I like to hobble train and teach them to lay down also. Both can be so useful.

Sorry that it turned out so long! lol

Edited by - Stormie on 01/04/2006 1:03:48 PM
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Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2006 :  12:58:24 PM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
It sounds like you are taking it too slow in some things and rushing in others. She doesn't sound ready to be on her back even though she handles it. If you can't get more then a walk on the longe line she isn't listening to you or respecting you. If you can't get yeilding to the bit(or halter) then she isn't ready for steering yet. If you can't move her body without touching her she isn't ready for a rider yet. These are things that you might not think important and probably weren't with a broke horse but with a green one is it.

For the gelding I agree it could have been past abuse, or just mouth pain, it's not really a sign of them being pushed to quickly with a bit. Most horses take to a bit quickly and quietly if the person doing the training does it right, starting out with sacking the horse out with it, teaching them to open their open, lower the head, yeild the head, etc. When done right you can start on yielding the same day the horse first takes the bit. For the one with spinning problem, 30 days is a drop in the bucket. 30 days isn't even enough to get a good solid start on training and when you are dealing with a problem it really isn't enough because the horse has unlearn and then relearn it correctly. You don't have to send her out to a trainer or even have a 'trainer' just someone that knows what they are doing to help so that you don't rush her on something, take too big of steps, or go to slow.

Going too slow can be just as bad as going too fast. It opens the door for the animal to develop problems, laziness being one of them, bad habits, unwilling to learn, a whole list of issues can come for it.

She is use to things liek 4 wheelers but had you sacking her out with things like the bridle? the whip, blankets, etc. Even if you think the horse has had it before and seems okay with these things it is important to do these. It helps to build respect and trust but also makes sure that the horse has had it done. Sacking out that hard to bridle gelding's head with a rope, halter and bridle would have helped him greatly. Even older well broke horses should have a refresher from time to time on is.

Having her use to the crack of the whip is good but she needs to learn to move when she hears it.....no what she needs to do is learn when to stand and when to move from cues of it. It is good that it doesn't bug her but now you need to condition her to more when you use the whip as part of cuing her to move forward. Ideally it isn't a crack of the whip or waving it around that would cue her just a raise of the whip, a turn to the hip and a step if needed.

For lunging I have found that the easiest way to teach it is to first teach a go foward cue with the whip. A tap on the hindquarters. This is also helpful with trailer loading, in hand trail, and even later on when riding. From there you go to basic lunging stuff. Keeping the horse close to you not out on the line. Just close enough that you can reach out with a short whip to give the go forward cue. Walk straigth with the horse next to you crop in the hand closest to the horse, line in the other hand. You stop and cue the horse forward around you in a half circle and then walk straight again. As the builds trust in moving without you it can be built up to a full cirlce and then a number of circles together and then farther out from you. The main focus at first is on walk and halt. Once the horse is good at that with it out on the line, bring him back close enough to you that you have contral but the circle is big enough to trot on. Get the horse walking forward and cue them to move faster with your voice, body, and whip cues. Push them until you get some speed and then release pressure. Repeat until the horse gets it. Sometimes they break into a canter but if the circle is smaller they can't canter that well, just halt them and then start out at a walk do some halts and try again.

Moving the body should not require you to touch her. She should respect you enough to move without you haveing to touch her with your hand or whip. Watch a group of horses. When the boss horse walks over they move before the boss does anything to make contact. That is what you need out of her. The Respect that she is willing to move away from you, out of your space or in the direction you want when you ask just by body movements, no touching. This should be covered before riding so that you have the respect. If you don't have respect and trust on the ground you will never have it in the saddle.

You did say if you have her yielding to the halter. Since that is what you are using to steer from she needs to know it, actually they all need to know to yield to the halter from the start of training. It's one of the first things they should learn. A horse that yields to the halter is less likely to develop problems like pulling back when tied, pulling on the handler when leading, ect. She should be light enough to the halter that she gives quietly and quickly. Since she has had the bit on for a few times now she can start witht he bit on yielding also. This conditioning is what gives you contral with the bridle/halter. Without it the contral is not really a contral and one day will fail.

If you where an owner I was working with I would take you back to ground work and fill in the holes you left. Work on respect and contral. Contral is so important and a big mistake is that people think that if they can do the basics of caring for the animal without problem they have contral. That isn't always true. Sometimes you can go for years with that basic contral without problem and then have it pop up because the horse's foundation training had holes and contral was not really their. A lot of problems are caused because of this. Like having probles with shots, deworming, moving around, pulling back, head butting, hard to catch. It isn't just the rearing, bucking, bolting, spinning, etc that is the signs of a poorly trained horse. I have helped farriers before and I can't believe the stuff that owners thing is 'good for farrier'. The owners did not see it as a problem but it was a huge sign that the horse needed work and that they didn't have the contral they thought. Once you had the respect on the ground. Can sack her out, have her move when/where/how you ask, stand when you ask, lunge(three gaits, change speed in gaits, halt, and change cirlce size/direction), have her yielding to the halter and bit then start back with the riding. Taking it slow is good but right now you are taking some things slow and then moving into steps that shouldn't be taken until those things are done.

Horses can be over loaded with training but that is when you move too quickly into steps the horse is not ready for, mainly when the baby steps that lead up to it where not finished or skipped completely. Like a rider just putting a bit on the horse without sacking out the head complete with the bridle first, or teaching him to lower his head and open his mouth when asked. If each of those steps are done correctly the horse could be in the bit in just a day or so. That would not be over load or moving too quickly as long as each step was completed. Even your weaning could be far enough along to be at the step if you do all of the rest of it. By the age of your baby my babies can:
Walk, trot, halt, stand, back,, yield to the halter, yield the forehand, hind quarters, sidepass, halfpass, square up, tie to just about every safe tie place I have including the trailer, load and unload from the trailer, stand in the trailer when the doors are closed, back from and walk out of the trailer, stand inside and out of the trailer when the doors are opened and closed, they are sacked out with all kinds of things, walked and ponied around the pen and yard and even on trail rides. Do in hand trail stuff with traps, bridges, water, poles, jumps, barrles, cones, jugs, tires, hoses, mail boxes, anything I can find. They bath, clip, pick up feet, stand for the vet and farrier. Are use to kids, dogs, tractors, 4 wheelers, cats, cattle, etc. Some have been to 2 or more shows, both to just hang out and to show in halter(Jazz has been showing since she was 3 months old). They have the start of lunging but not the cirlces yet or just one circle at a time. They have been in the round pen and worked in there slowly. Not only can I play with them other people can play with them and handle them. They are calm, easy to work with. Are use to blankets, sheets, saddle pads, sursingles, some have had rope put in their mouth like bits. You can walk out in the big field and catch. They go away from mom(as young as a month, sometimes younger depending on the mare and foal) and have their lessons or mom can leave them and have her lesson. Basily I can do just about anything with them I want and have them stay calm. They trust me and respect me as boss mare. For as much as I do with them by the time they are your fillies age they are not pushed. Lessons are short, building on each one. I never push them any farther they can handle but I push them as far as they can go. With all of this they handle it just fine. As yearlings every is the same plus with with the bridle/bit, acutal lunging, long lining(I think what you saying with two lines), ground driving(from a sidepull not bit), and even a saddle. They are shown more this year in halter, taken on more trail walks by themselves(even the weanlings can go by themselves). I don't ride until they are 3 so a lot of this I could spread out more but I don't see why as long as they can handle it. You aren't pushing the filly too much. A lot of what you need to do with the mare can also be done with the filly and then she is old enough to ride you won't have to worry about teaching those things to her.

I like the stopping cues too. I teach mine to ground tie also and I get a lot of ohhs and ahhs when I can take a horse and lunge it up to the canter and have them stop and dead. Then I can drop the line and walk away and know they will still be there when I come back. Not that I always leave a 35 foot line on a loose horse but I can do it. I like to hobble train and teach them to lay down also. Both can be so useful.

Sorry that it turned out so long! lol

Edited by - Stormie on 01/04/2006 1:03:48 PM
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Saddletramp
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
2546 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2006 :  5:50:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit Saddletramp's Homepage Send Saddletramp a Private Message
lol....Fractured! I WROTE the check that paid for the training to get my mare from broodmare to riding mare! lol And I'll continue to write that check as often as needed....she is far from finished, especially after having most of last summer off, unfortunately.

-Saddletramp

"She never moved the stars from their courses,
but she loved a good man and she rode good horses"
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Saddletramp
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
2546 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2006 :  5:50:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit Saddletramp's Homepage Send Saddletramp a Private Message
lol....Fractured! I WROTE the check that paid for the training to get my mare from broodmare to riding mare! lol And I'll continue to write that check as often as needed....she is far from finished, especially after having most of last summer off, unfortunately.

-Saddletramp

"She never moved the stars from their courses,
but she loved a good man and she rode good horses"
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hoofnit
Tenderfoot

USA
8 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2006 :  9:06:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit hoofnit's Homepage Send hoofnit a Private Message
Red Hawk thank you for your advise... I love to just watch my horses at the end of a hard day or when ever I am outside but I have not been looking so much at the things you were talking about. I have been keeping her seperate from my TB as much as possible so I haven't been looking in that direction. I wanted her to bond with me and not him.. He loves mares and has a tendency (sp) to do the herd thing. I have noticed when they are together she is more the follower, not the leader. I am thinking that I do need to establish more of the alpha thing with her like I did with Jake (the TB). I guess I did not realize that just because she isn't openly being dificult that she was trying to do the pecking order with me by not moving when I ask her to. I was just thinking it was her not understanding what I wanted her to do. I think you and Stormie are right in that I need to slow down on the riding and finish working on the ground before I get back on her.

Fracturedbones thank you for the welcome and yes I get the RFD TV . I have not seen Clinton on there as yet. It seems that when I tune in they are showing dressage or county music shows. Every once in a while I get to see Pat Parelli and his wife on, but that has been a while ago. I will see if I can tune in when Clinton is on and hopefully learn something. I would love to show off my babies but I have no clue as to how to put them on this post.... I am useless when it comes to computers :( . If you could advise as to how to do it I would be in your debt...:)

Stormie like I said I think you and Red Hawk are right about the too fast and too slow.. I will back off and do more on the ground training... I have been sacking her with the blankets, saddles, bridles etc. and she does real well with all that. She has enough sense in her that when she is unsure she just steps back and looks. then when she sees it is not going to hurt her she no longer reacts when I bring it to her again. I am going to give a try to the lounging you suggested this week. I work with her a little every day ie... grooming, tying and that sort of thing. I will let you know how it goes... I am also going to try getting her to yeild to the bit now that I see it is not too soon to do it. I will work with her on that in the morning.

As Savannah goes, I was very surprised to read that you could do so much training to a young horse. I have always been told that you can really mess them up if you try and train a baby too much so they should be taught to lead, tie and be able to have their feet done but for the most part left in the pasture to grow. This is very good to learn... I have been very worried about doing too much with her so I really limit myself in what I do with her.

Thanks again big...:)

cindy

Cindy
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hoofnit
Tenderfoot

USA
8 Posts

Posted - 01/04/2006 :  9:06:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit hoofnit's Homepage Send hoofnit a Private Message
Red Hawk thank you for your advise... I love to just watch my horses at the end of a hard day or when ever I am outside but I have not been looking so much at the things you were talking about. I have been keeping her seperate from my TB as much as possible so I haven't been looking in that direction. I wanted her to bond with me and not him.. He loves mares and has a tendency (sp) to do the herd thing. I have noticed when they are together she is more the follower, not the leader. I am thinking that I do need to establish more of the alpha thing with her like I did with Jake (the TB). I guess I did not realize that just because she isn't openly being dificult that she was trying to do the pecking order with me by not moving when I ask her to. I was just thinking it was her not understanding what I wanted her to do. I think you and Stormie are right in that I need to slow down on the riding and finish working on the ground before I get back on her.

Fracturedbones thank you for the welcome and yes I get the RFD TV . I have not seen Clinton on there as yet. It seems that when I tune in they are showing dressage or county music shows. Every once in a while I get to see Pat Parelli and his wife on, but that has been a while ago. I will see if I can tune in when Clinton is on and hopefully learn something. I would love to show off my babies but I have no clue as to how to put them on this post.... I am useless when it comes to computers :( . If you could advise as to how to do it I would be in your debt...:)

Stormie like I said I think you and Red Hawk are right about the too fast and too slow.. I will back off and do more on the ground training... I have been sacking her with the blankets, saddles, bridles etc. and she does real well with all that. She has enough sense in her that when she is unsure she just steps back and looks. then when she sees it is not going to hurt her she no longer reacts when I bring it to her again. I am going to give a try to the lounging you suggested this week. I work with her a little every day ie... grooming, tying and that sort of thing. I will let you know how it goes... I am also going to try getting her to yeild to the bit now that I see it is not too soon to do it. I will work with her on that in the morning.

As Savannah goes, I was very surprised to read that you could do so much training to a young horse. I have always been told that you can really mess them up if you try and train a baby too much so they should be taught to lead, tie and be able to have their feet done but for the most part left in the pasture to grow. This is very good to learn... I have been very worried about doing too much with her so I really limit myself in what I do with her.

Thanks again big...:)

cindy

Cindy
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Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 01/05/2006 :  12:38:59 AM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
The difference in what I do with babies and what some others do could be showing and selling. When showing weanlings and yearlings they have to be worked with a lot or going to the show is very stressful. You can ruin a baby with training. The key is not so much how far you get but how you do it. On the whole scale of a day I hardly work with them at all but each little step is done in such a way that it is little, very little but a step up to the next thing so that it builds on itself. Most of the big stuff can all be broke down into the same basic ideas. Once you got those down it's nothing to move it into other areas. Like the go forward cue is used in leading, tying, lunging, round pen, trailering, in hand trail, etc. That one little step carries over so it isn't like going from leading to trailer loading is acturally working on something totally new. The basics are the same, you go from just walking around to walking up into something. And if you work on walking over stuff, up on to stuff and through things before you go to the trailer you have all of the steps done just not with the trailer.

When you limit yourself in what you do with her you limit her also. Training isn't pushing until you try to go farther then the horse is able to. Not all young horses can handle that much no matter how you do it so it is something you have to watch out for but as long as you think in terms of baby steps, building on each one, breaking each large thing into those steps and using the same steps to build on it isn't a problem. Work only a short time 10-20 minutes tops for a long lesson and do a few a day if she can handle it or break them down smaller yet and do a few a day. We stress the young ones out with training when the steps aren't broken down far enough or they are worked for too long at a time. An older horse can go an hour or more a weanling is toping out around 20-30 minutes, yearlings can handle up to an hour but many are hitting their limit around 30-45 minutes.

All of my foals are pasture raised, they need that time to be a horse and grow but I don't like a horse I can't work with and the only way to do that is work with them. Just leading, tying and pick up their feet is fine if that is what the owner wants but if you have a foal you need to doctor that isn't enough. I have had two foals that had to be a doctored a lot their first year(the one was less then a day old and put down by a month) so they had to be able to go in the trailer, be sacked out, respect me. That is the big thing, respect and if all you do is those three things you don't have the amount of respect you need when you have to do major vet care on them.

You don't have to do nearly what I do with mine, you shouldn't if you don't feel ready but it is impossible and if she is a horse that can handle it then why not. Its like childern if you don't challenge them enough it causes problems too. I love the fact that my babies do so much and that even a green person can work with them without major issue. It comes in handy when I can't be the one to care for them. A couple summers ago I had two yearlings colts and my niece wanted to show one. She had never shown before, is a little on the scared side when it comes to horses but she wanted to do this and the colt was out of her pony mare so he was special to her. I had had no plans of showing him since he wasn't a halter horse at all. Because I had given him the same type of training it was not an issue that my sister called me up a day before the show to ask if she could show him. And they did so well they took 4th. He will probably never set foot in a show ring again but with his basic training he could. And they where so cute together!
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Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 01/05/2006 :  12:38:59 AM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
The difference in what I do with babies and what some others do could be showing and selling. When showing weanlings and yearlings they have to be worked with a lot or going to the show is very stressful. You can ruin a baby with training. The key is not so much how far you get but how you do it. On the whole scale of a day I hardly work with them at all but each little step is done in such a way that it is little, very little but a step up to the next thing so that it builds on itself. Most of the big stuff can all be broke down into the same basic ideas. Once you got those down it's nothing to move it into other areas. Like the go forward cue is used in leading, tying, lunging, round pen, trailering, in hand trail, etc. That one little step carries over so it isn't like going from leading to trailer loading is acturally working on something totally new. The basics are the same, you go from just walking around to walking up into something. And if you work on walking over stuff, up on to stuff and through things before you go to the trailer you have all of the steps done just not with the trailer.

When you limit yourself in what you do with her you limit her also. Training isn't pushing until you try to go farther then the horse is able to. Not all young horses can handle that much no matter how you do it so it is something you have to watch out for but as long as you think in terms of baby steps, building on each one, breaking each large thing into those steps and using the same steps to build on it isn't a problem. Work only a short time 10-20 minutes tops for a long lesson and do a few a day if she can handle it or break them down smaller yet and do a few a day. We stress the young ones out with training when the steps aren't broken down far enough or they are worked for too long at a time. An older horse can go an hour or more a weanling is toping out around 20-30 minutes, yearlings can handle up to an hour but many are hitting their limit around 30-45 minutes.

All of my foals are pasture raised, they need that time to be a horse and grow but I don't like a horse I can't work with and the only way to do that is work with them. Just leading, tying and pick up their feet is fine if that is what the owner wants but if you have a foal you need to doctor that isn't enough. I have had two foals that had to be a doctored a lot their first year(the one was less then a day old and put down by a month) so they had to be able to go in the trailer, be sacked out, respect me. That is the big thing, respect and if all you do is those three things you don't have the amount of respect you need when you have to do major vet care on them.

You don't have to do nearly what I do with mine, you shouldn't if you don't feel ready but it is impossible and if she is a horse that can handle it then why not. Its like childern if you don't challenge them enough it causes problems too. I love the fact that my babies do so much and that even a green person can work with them without major issue. It comes in handy when I can't be the one to care for them. A couple summers ago I had two yearlings colts and my niece wanted to show one. She had never shown before, is a little on the scared side when it comes to horses but she wanted to do this and the colt was out of her pony mare so he was special to her. I had had no plans of showing him since he wasn't a halter horse at all. Because I had given him the same type of training it was not an issue that my sister called me up a day before the show to ask if she could show him. And they did so well they took 4th. He will probably never set foot in a show ring again but with his basic training he could. And they where so cute together!
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Hook
Trail Boss (Moderator)



Canada
6115 Posts

Posted - 01/05/2006 :  05:06:16 AM  Show Profile  Visit Hook's Homepage Send Hook a Private Message
My only addition is to emphasis the importance of small successes and building on them. Hoofnit, with your experience with horses I am confident that you can continue the training process on your own. Decide what you want your horse to do, review the "how to start a young horse" literature available and pick the things that are important to you. Break the training down into small steps, Make sure that the horse understands what you want, be firm and buld on those small successes. I am not a fan of any aggressive "sacking" procedures for a young horse that has been hand raised. Consistent gentle exposure to different things works better for me.

To post pictures of your horses:
TO POST PICTURES ON THE FORUM
· Open an account at http://photobucket.com
· Click BROWSE on the add pictures screen and upload your picture from your hard drive. This make take some time depending on the size of your picture file
· When the upload is complete right click on the third line down titled “img” then COPY. With my computer I don’t have to highlight, when I right click all of the required file info is highlighted
· Now go to your post on the forum and put the curser where you want the picture.
· Right click, PASTE and you are done.
· Good idea to use preview on forum to check size of the picture. If it is too large go back to photobucket and use the edit function to reduce the size.

Good luck.

Hook(ed)......on Horses

"The best things in life are nearest: Breath in your nostrils, light in your eyes, flowers at your feet, duties at your hand, the path of right just before you. Then do not grasp at the stars, but do life's plain, common work as it comes, certain that daily duties and daily bread are the sweetest things in life. " Author: Robert Louis Stevenson
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Hook
Trail Boss (Moderator)



Canada
6115 Posts

Posted - 01/05/2006 :  05:06:16 AM  Show Profile  Visit Hook's Homepage Send Hook a Private Message
My only addition is to emphasis the importance of small successes and building on them. Hoofnit, with your experience with horses I am confident that you can continue the training process on your own. Decide what you want your horse to do, review the "how to start a young horse" literature available and pick the things that are important to you. Break the training down into small steps, Make sure that the horse understands what you want, be firm and buld on those small successes. I am not a fan of any aggressive "sacking" procedures for a young horse that has been hand raised. Consistent gentle exposure to different things works better for me.

To post pictures of your horses:
TO POST PICTURES ON THE FORUM
· Open an account at http://photobucket.com
· Click BROWSE on the add pictures screen and upload your picture from your hard drive. This make take some time depending on the size of your picture file
· When the upload is complete right click on the third line down titled “img” then COPY. With my computer I don’t have to highlight, when I right click all of the required file info is highlighted
· Now go to your post on the forum and put the curser where you want the picture.
· Right click, PASTE and you are done.
· Good idea to use preview on forum to check size of the picture. If it is too large go back to photobucket and use the edit function to reduce the size.

Good luck.

Hook(ed)......on Horses

"The best things in life are nearest: Breath in your nostrils, light in your eyes, flowers at your feet, duties at your hand, the path of right just before you. Then do not grasp at the stars, but do life's plain, common work as it comes, certain that daily duties and daily bread are the sweetest things in life. " Author: Robert Louis Stevenson
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hoofnit
Tenderfoot

USA
8 Posts

Posted - 01/05/2006 :  8:35:05 PM  Show Profile  Visit hoofnit's Homepage Send hoofnit a Private Message
Stormie, I understand what you mean now about how to go about training a baby. I have Savannah leading, tying, loading already. She loves a bath and to be groomed. I wanted to start working with her in the round pen but was afraid to do too much for the reasons I gave in my earlier post. I'm glad you clarified how you train your babies, this way I now know how to go about teaching her all the things she will need to know before I start riding her in a few years. Thank you the info you gave was a big help.

Hook , thank you for the information on how to download the pictures to this forum, I will see if I can do it succesfully... fingers crossed... thank you for your added advice on the girls. I am definately going to follow the advise given....

You both have given me alot to think about and apply towards training both of my girls and I appreciate it. :)

Cindy

Cindy
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Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2006 :  1:34:08 PM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
With the round pen have the first few times be just her getting use to it. You can over work them in there so try to keep it calm and slow. That doesn't always work. Also don't turn too much or let it be longer then 15 minutes(less at first). Focus more on getting her to listen and move around when you ask. If she is too wild in there and too upset about being away from other horses then leave a lead on and work on yielding until she can remain calm with that.
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hoofnit
Tenderfoot

USA
8 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2006 :  5:26:03 PM  Show Profile  Visit hoofnit's Homepage Send hoofnit a Private Message
Stormie, thank you I will do that... I will let you know how she does. I am looking forward to my day off this weekend to get started on both of my girls... :)

Cindy

Cindy
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hoofnit
Tenderfoot

USA
8 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2006 :  5:29:30 PM  Show Profile  Visit hoofnit's Homepage Send hoofnit a Private Message
Hey I forgot to ask .... If I use a lounge whip with Savannah do I run the risk of scaring her. I do not want her to associate me with the whip and be afraid to come to me. Being as she is a baby do I have to worry about that


thank you

Cindy

Cindy
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Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 01/06/2006 :  6:17:05 PM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
Depends more on how you use it then if you use it. First a horse needs to be sacked out with the whip of course. That helps a lot in teaching them to no fear it but how you use it is just as important. I seldom crack it. I will flick it more then crack it but even then it's more of a point thing. For round penning I normally use a lead rope not a whip but both are the same, you have to use it as if it is part of your arm. You don't want to wave it around or use it any more then you have to. So first you just raise it a little and move it slightly towards the hind feet. If that doesn't work you raise it a little more, going in degrees up to a flick towards the hindquarters with the cracking at the horse one of the last things. I will flick it to touch the horse before cracking it. Never over use it, only use it when you use it, and always praise the animal like a god when they do good. If used correctly the animal should not fear it or fear you since it is used fairly. I would work with a long rope first maybe. They tend to be quieter but also they are larger easier for the young one to see instead of this thin little hard to see thing coming out of no where that makes a whizzing sound in the air. You will problemly find that you don't need a whip if you work with her. Just a flip of the lead gets most young ones moving and then from there you use your body unless they get sticky feet.
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