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 Building a respectful relationship...
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alidansma
Tenderfoot

7 Posts

Posted - 12/12/2005 :  2:52:50 PM  Show Profile  Visit alidansma's Homepage Send alidansma a Private Message
Hi everyone,

I have been poking around your board for some time now. This seems to be the right place to find some useful information.

Here is my situation...I am an almost 30 year old and have just gotten an older mare. She is my first horse, although I have been taking riding lessons for about a year. I have only had her for a couple of weeks. She is in a 24 x 24 corral and I have no other horses around.

Now of course she seems happy to see me in the morning - but I am sure she is just happy to know breakfast is on the way. She lets me pick up her feet no problem, brush her no problem. I was giving her treats....but now I have stopped that since she seems to be getting pushy about treats.

Certainly I want my horse to like me, but after reading several posts here, and everything else I can get my hands on, I see now that respect needs to come first.

So basically what I am looking for is what I can be doing to earn respect. I do not have an arena, or a round pen. I have a halter and a lead rope - and that is it so far...didn't want to over buy a bunch of gimmicks, if you know what I mean...

My horse is good about moving around when I tell her to, but sometimes she has her ears back, she has even taken a couple of "nips" at me, although not making contact. When she seems to be getting an attitude I move her around or yell at her...but there is so much information about respect - I am having a hard time knowing where to begin laying my foundation...

Please help me if you can - Thanks

FLOOPER
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
2493 Posts

Posted - 12/12/2005 :  3:02:45 PM  Show Profile  Visit FLOOPER's Homepage Send FLOOPER a Private Message
Wiser (and more experienced) hands than me will answer, but I'll throw in my two cents worth. I think you're doing the right things so far. If all you have is a halter and a lead rope, I would focus on just what you have been doing--making the mare move where and when and how you want. Many old hands will tell you control starts with the feet. Control the feet, you control the horse. So just keep making her move, change directions, back up, move sideways, lead around, move left, move right, etc. Eventually, you'll want to get some traning tapes or books, and a longer line for lunging, etc. But your question was what can you do with just a halter and lead rope, so that's what I answered. Keep moving those feet!!!! Hope this helps.

Ohhh...and I almost forgot...WELCOME!!

Flooper

"I'm a man. I can change. If I have to. I guess."
The Man's Prayer from the Red Green Show

Edited by - FLOOPER on 12/12/2005 3:03:20 PM
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FLOOPER
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
2493 Posts

Posted - 12/12/2005 :  3:02:45 PM  Show Profile  Visit FLOOPER's Homepage Send FLOOPER a Private Message
Wiser (and more experienced) hands than me will answer, but I'll throw in my two cents worth. I think you're doing the right things so far. If all you have is a halter and a lead rope, I would focus on just what you have been doing--making the mare move where and when and how you want. Many old hands will tell you control starts with the feet. Control the feet, you control the horse. So just keep making her move, change directions, back up, move sideways, lead around, move left, move right, etc. Eventually, you'll want to get some traning tapes or books, and a longer line for lunging, etc. But your question was what can you do with just a halter and lead rope, so that's what I answered. Keep moving those feet!!!! Hope this helps.

Ohhh...and I almost forgot...WELCOME!!

Flooper

"I'm a man. I can change. If I have to. I guess."
The Man's Prayer from the Red Green Show

Edited by - FLOOPER on 12/12/2005 3:03:20 PM
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Hook
Trail Boss (Moderator)



Canada
6115 Posts

Posted - 12/12/2005 :  7:52:01 PM  Show Profile  Visit Hook's Homepage Send Hook a Private Message
If she puts her ears back whack her with the end of the lead shank. If she nips at you do the same. She needs to know that you are the boss and a disrepectful attitude will not be tolerated.

Hook(ed)......on Horses

"The best things in life are nearest: Breath in your nostrils, light in your eyes, flowers at your feet, duties at your hand, the path of right just before you. Then do not grasp at the stars, but do life's plain, common work as it comes, certain that daily duties and daily bread are the sweetest things in life. " Author: Robert Louis Stevenson
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Hook
Trail Boss (Moderator)



Canada
6115 Posts

Posted - 12/12/2005 :  7:52:01 PM  Show Profile  Visit Hook's Homepage Send Hook a Private Message
If she puts her ears back whack her with the end of the lead shank. If she nips at you do the same. She needs to know that you are the boss and a disrepectful attitude will not be tolerated.

Hook(ed)......on Horses

"The best things in life are nearest: Breath in your nostrils, light in your eyes, flowers at your feet, duties at your hand, the path of right just before you. Then do not grasp at the stars, but do life's plain, common work as it comes, certain that daily duties and daily bread are the sweetest things in life. " Author: Robert Louis Stevenson
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Hook
Trail Boss (Moderator)



Canada
6115 Posts

Posted - 12/12/2005 :  7:53:23 PM  Show Profile  Visit Hook's Homepage Send Hook a Private Message
Welocme to the board. Post Pictures. Method http://www.dailyequine.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=620

Hook(ed)......on Horses

"The best things in life are nearest: Breath in your nostrils, light in your eyes, flowers at your feet, duties at your hand, the path of right just before you. Then do not grasp at the stars, but do life's plain, common work as it comes, certain that daily duties and daily bread are the sweetest things in life. " Author: Robert Louis Stevenson
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Hook
Trail Boss (Moderator)



Canada
6115 Posts

Posted - 12/12/2005 :  7:53:23 PM  Show Profile  Visit Hook's Homepage Send Hook a Private Message
Welocme to the board. Post Pictures. Method http://www.dailyequine.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=620

Hook(ed)......on Horses

"The best things in life are nearest: Breath in your nostrils, light in your eyes, flowers at your feet, duties at your hand, the path of right just before you. Then do not grasp at the stars, but do life's plain, common work as it comes, certain that daily duties and daily bread are the sweetest things in life. " Author: Robert Louis Stevenson
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alidansma
Tenderfoot

7 Posts

Posted - 12/12/2005 :  9:14:24 PM  Show Profile  Visit alidansma's Homepage Send alidansma a Private Message
Thank you for the welcome. I will try to post a nice picture tomarrow...as for method...I don't have a method yet. I mean it is obvious that she is already trained, she is rideable, it just seems to be that she thinks she is the alpha, or that she thinks the alpha position is up for grabs. I want to be a fair and firm leader, but I want to know where to start. I feel like smacking her for every infraction might be more confusing than helpful, although I am not opposed to smacking when necessary.

I was thinking of picking a handful of rules to start with..
For example
- No biting/ air nipping/ nose bumping, etc. Don't put your face up to me.

- Stay away from the food bin until I walk away.

- Stay three feet behind me while I lead you.

And then correcting those behaviors consistantly for a period of time before adding to them.

Are those good to start with? are there other behaviors that need to be dealt with first. I am a little concerned that if every time she sees me I am just a yelling, rope-swinging lunatic that she will develop a phobia of me rather than a respect. Also since treats are now out of the equation, what is the best reward? So far all I have is a verbal "good girl" the option to stand still and a rub at the withers...

thanks for your help!


P.S. Okay, Okay...I can't help but show you one lil' picture!


Edited by - alidansma on 12/12/2005 11:50:53 PM
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alidansma
Tenderfoot

7 Posts

Posted - 12/12/2005 :  9:14:24 PM  Show Profile  Visit alidansma's Homepage Send alidansma a Private Message
Thank you for the welcome. I will try to post a nice picture tomarrow...as for method...I don't have a method yet. I mean it is obvious that she is already trained, she is rideable, it just seems to be that she thinks she is the alpha, or that she thinks the alpha position is up for grabs. I want to be a fair and firm leader, but I want to know where to start. I feel like smacking her for every infraction might be more confusing than helpful, although I am not opposed to smacking when necessary.

I was thinking of picking a handful of rules to start with..
For example
- No biting/ air nipping/ nose bumping, etc. Don't put your face up to me.

- Stay away from the food bin until I walk away.

- Stay three feet behind me while I lead you.

And then correcting those behaviors consistantly for a period of time before adding to them.

Are those good to start with? are there other behaviors that need to be dealt with first. I am a little concerned that if every time she sees me I am just a yelling, rope-swinging lunatic that she will develop a phobia of me rather than a respect. Also since treats are now out of the equation, what is the best reward? So far all I have is a verbal "good girl" the option to stand still and a rub at the withers...

thanks for your help!


P.S. Okay, Okay...I can't help but show you one lil' picture!


Edited by - alidansma on 12/12/2005 11:50:53 PM
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Hook
Trail Boss (Moderator)



Canada
6115 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2005 :  05:41:08 AM  Show Profile  Visit Hook's Homepage Send Hook a Private Message
We like pictures. Nice Mare. Looks like a Quarter horse. More pictures please.

Hook(ed)......on Horses

"The best things in life are nearest: Breath in your nostrils, light in your eyes, flowers at your feet, duties at your hand, the path of right just before you. Then do not grasp at the stars, but do life's plain, common work as it comes, certain that daily duties and daily bread are the sweetest things in life. " Author: Robert Louis Stevenson
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Hook
Trail Boss (Moderator)



Canada
6115 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2005 :  05:41:08 AM  Show Profile  Visit Hook's Homepage Send Hook a Private Message
We like pictures. Nice Mare. Looks like a Quarter horse. More pictures please.

Hook(ed)......on Horses

"The best things in life are nearest: Breath in your nostrils, light in your eyes, flowers at your feet, duties at your hand, the path of right just before you. Then do not grasp at the stars, but do life's plain, common work as it comes, certain that daily duties and daily bread are the sweetest things in life. " Author: Robert Louis Stevenson
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EZ2SPOT
Clinician

USA
3785 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2005 :  06:31:39 AM  Show Profile  Visit EZ2SPOT's Homepage Send EZ2SPOT a Private Message
Nice looking mare, and welcome to the DE!

Since you don't have a round pen, you might want to look into doing some Parelli ground-work, which requires only a halter and rope. Books and videos are available on this, but, basically, you work with the horse to teach her to move her hindquarters or forehand away from you, back, circle around you at the end of the rope and change directions and stop, and go between objects at your direction. This helps a horse to become more respectful and to focus on you. It is a good starting point, anyway.

EZ2SPOT
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EZ2SPOT
Clinician

USA
3785 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2005 :  06:31:39 AM  Show Profile  Visit EZ2SPOT's Homepage Send EZ2SPOT a Private Message
Nice looking mare, and welcome to the DE!

Since you don't have a round pen, you might want to look into doing some Parelli ground-work, which requires only a halter and rope. Books and videos are available on this, but, basically, you work with the horse to teach her to move her hindquarters or forehand away from you, back, circle around you at the end of the rope and change directions and stop, and go between objects at your direction. This helps a horse to become more respectful and to focus on you. It is a good starting point, anyway.

EZ2SPOT
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fracturedbones
Clinician



3424 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2005 :  10:08:47 AM  Show Profile  Visit fracturedbones's Homepage Send fracturedbones a Private Message
Welcome! Nice pic!

Think you are ahead of the game just for thinking of rules for your horse and respect and behaviors you want from your horse.

Like EZ said, you can train without arena and round pen....using 14' lead and graduating to longer. Lots of good clinician videos out there to help. Maybe a bit harder without fencing as a safety valve, but can be done. Might want to think about building a round pen....can do it for reasonable price buying used corral panels and do a 60 footer.

Your horse may wonder what the deal is, but if consistant they learn pretty quick you are the new boss mare. It's kind of interesting when the only horse around. My experience they bond to you even more closely...changes though when another 4 legger comes into the picture! Congrats and good luck

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fracturedbones
Clinician



3424 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2005 :  10:08:47 AM  Show Profile  Visit fracturedbones's Homepage Send fracturedbones a Private Message
Welcome! Nice pic!

Think you are ahead of the game just for thinking of rules for your horse and respect and behaviors you want from your horse.

Like EZ said, you can train without arena and round pen....using 14' lead and graduating to longer. Lots of good clinician videos out there to help. Maybe a bit harder without fencing as a safety valve, but can be done. Might want to think about building a round pen....can do it for reasonable price buying used corral panels and do a 60 footer.

Your horse may wonder what the deal is, but if consistant they learn pretty quick you are the new boss mare. It's kind of interesting when the only horse around. My experience they bond to you even more closely...changes though when another 4 legger comes into the picture! Congrats and good luck

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Red Hawk
Clinician



USA
5092 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2005 :  10:26:33 AM  Show Profile Send Red Hawk a Private Message
Hello and welcome.

First and foremost, horses respect the one who is in control and lays down the rules. If you watch a herd of horses loose in an enclosure or out in a field, you'll see this happen all the time. If a horse lower in the pecking order does something the horse higher up in that order doesn't like, the superior horse will kick, bite, or run off the less superior one. It's very quick, to the point, and then it's over. The two will ignore each other and life goes on... but with one very big significant change. The one that got run off will now respect the other horse and not try whatever it was that he tried to do to the superior horse.

This is the way a pecking order works. The herd leader lays down the rules in no uncertain terms, and the rest of the herd toes the line and tries not to interfere with that herd leader. In return, they watch the herd leader to tell them when danger is near and what to do about it. In the wild, the lead horse is usually the one to take them to good forage, fresh water, and shelter from the elements.

Now, your job is to become the herd leader. It is your job to establish the rules of your relationship with your horse and to make sure they are abided by every time you are with your horse. Respect will come when the horse understands these rules and what she is expected to do when around you.

The treat thing was a mistake. She is expecting it because you taught her you will give her treats. This will usually cause the horse to start nipping or getting aggressive when you no longer have them. She is telling you that you better have treats for her or she is going to become the herd leader. She's the less superior horse making a bid for herd leadership and it's your resonsibility to put her it her place... right now & immediately when this infraction of proper behavior happens. I have balled up my fist and hit my horse in the neck for this. I've kicked her in the chest as hard as I can while yelling like a banshee. The result? My horse tries to get away from me and is surprised by my behavior. I'll wait a few long seconds, and then go up and pet her. This tells her, "I could've killed you but I decided to let you live... this time." Then, I'll leave her alone for awhile. Usually, when I come back, she'll have a whole different attitude... one of respect for my authority to be in charge... in control.

When you are training your horse "punishment" is any cue you use to make your horse do something, even something as simple as a light pull on the lead rope to make her move a certain way. Any pressure applied to the horse is what is termed "punishment". The "reward" is when this pressure is released. This tells the horse she did what you ask correctly and favorably in your eyes. With repetition, this behavior will become a habit and be automatic when you use that cue, again.

The one thing that I see wrong is where you want her to walk 3 feet behind you. Do you want her to do this every time you are leading her? If so, you will have no control if she does something wrong or spooks at something with you ahead of her. Not only that, but she could run right over top of you. When leading it's wise to stand to the horse's left side. Your right hand should be about 6 inches from the halter under the horse's chin on the lead. Your left hand should be holding the remainder of the lead so it's not dragging on the ground where you or the horse could step on it. This next statement is extremely important: Never wrap the lead around your hand when leading or holding a horse! If the horse happened to spook or run, that lead would tighten around your hand in an instant and the horse can drag you. Now, alway walk to the side of the horse when leading her. With your right hand that close to her head, you will have much better control to correct any unwanted behavior from your horse compared to walking 3 feet in front of her. You will also be off to the side so if she does bolt, you can let go of the lead and she won't be in a position to possibly run you down. Never walk directly in front of or come up directly behind a horse. It's a recipe for disaster.

So, it's always best to treat a horse just like another horse higher in the pecking order would treat her. Horses like leadership. They like to have someone tell them what to do. It's in their nature. Once you become that alpha horse (the herd leader), you will have gained that respect you are looking for. Good luck.

"God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses"
--Robert Browning

Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
-- Author Unknown
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Red Hawk
Clinician



USA
5092 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2005 :  10:26:33 AM  Show Profile Send Red Hawk a Private Message
Hello and welcome.

First and foremost, horses respect the one who is in control and lays down the rules. If you watch a herd of horses loose in an enclosure or out in a field, you'll see this happen all the time. If a horse lower in the pecking order does something the horse higher up in that order doesn't like, the superior horse will kick, bite, or run off the less superior one. It's very quick, to the point, and then it's over. The two will ignore each other and life goes on... but with one very big significant change. The one that got run off will now respect the other horse and not try whatever it was that he tried to do to the superior horse.

This is the way a pecking order works. The herd leader lays down the rules in no uncertain terms, and the rest of the herd toes the line and tries not to interfere with that herd leader. In return, they watch the herd leader to tell them when danger is near and what to do about it. In the wild, the lead horse is usually the one to take them to good forage, fresh water, and shelter from the elements.

Now, your job is to become the herd leader. It is your job to establish the rules of your relationship with your horse and to make sure they are abided by every time you are with your horse. Respect will come when the horse understands these rules and what she is expected to do when around you.

The treat thing was a mistake. She is expecting it because you taught her you will give her treats. This will usually cause the horse to start nipping or getting aggressive when you no longer have them. She is telling you that you better have treats for her or she is going to become the herd leader. She's the less superior horse making a bid for herd leadership and it's your resonsibility to put her it her place... right now & immediately when this infraction of proper behavior happens. I have balled up my fist and hit my horse in the neck for this. I've kicked her in the chest as hard as I can while yelling like a banshee. The result? My horse tries to get away from me and is surprised by my behavior. I'll wait a few long seconds, and then go up and pet her. This tells her, "I could've killed you but I decided to let you live... this time." Then, I'll leave her alone for awhile. Usually, when I come back, she'll have a whole different attitude... one of respect for my authority to be in charge... in control.

When you are training your horse "punishment" is any cue you use to make your horse do something, even something as simple as a light pull on the lead rope to make her move a certain way. Any pressure applied to the horse is what is termed "punishment". The "reward" is when this pressure is released. This tells the horse she did what you ask correctly and favorably in your eyes. With repetition, this behavior will become a habit and be automatic when you use that cue, again.

The one thing that I see wrong is where you want her to walk 3 feet behind you. Do you want her to do this every time you are leading her? If so, you will have no control if she does something wrong or spooks at something with you ahead of her. Not only that, but she could run right over top of you. When leading it's wise to stand to the horse's left side. Your right hand should be about 6 inches from the halter under the horse's chin on the lead. Your left hand should be holding the remainder of the lead so it's not dragging on the ground where you or the horse could step on it. This next statement is extremely important: Never wrap the lead around your hand when leading or holding a horse! If the horse happened to spook or run, that lead would tighten around your hand in an instant and the horse can drag you. Now, alway walk to the side of the horse when leading her. With your right hand that close to her head, you will have much better control to correct any unwanted behavior from your horse compared to walking 3 feet in front of her. You will also be off to the side so if she does bolt, you can let go of the lead and she won't be in a position to possibly run you down. Never walk directly in front of or come up directly behind a horse. It's a recipe for disaster.

So, it's always best to treat a horse just like another horse higher in the pecking order would treat her. Horses like leadership. They like to have someone tell them what to do. It's in their nature. Once you become that alpha horse (the herd leader), you will have gained that respect you are looking for. Good luck.

"God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses"
--Robert Browning

Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
-- Author Unknown
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alidansma
Tenderfoot

7 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2005 :  10:34:08 AM  Show Profile  Visit alidansma's Homepage Send alidansma a Private Message
Yes Hook, she is just a plain old Quarter horse.

I am looking to putting in an arena, maybe in the next three months or so. About 90' by 120' - mostly just for a safe place to ride until we have figured each other out.

I am a little intimidated by all the training methods and styles out there, and of course everyone wants you to buy "their" special product...and quite frankly I don't have the money, I will make do with what I have and only buy what I need. But I am sure there are some things that are worth the money. Any suggestions here?

How about clicker training - I did that with my dogs and they love it, but it relies heavily on food treats in the beginning. Maybe I could stand with a pocket full of pellets and toss them into the food dish one at a time so she doesn't come to me for food...

Equine affair is coming up in Feb. Guess I will be saving my money for that.

Ha ha Fractured Bones,,
quote:
It's kind of interesting when the only horse around. My experience they bond to you even more closely...changes though when another 4 legger comes into the picture!


My husband barely accepted me getting this free horse...it will be a long time before we expand our herd..
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alidansma
Tenderfoot

7 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2005 :  10:34:08 AM  Show Profile  Visit alidansma's Homepage Send alidansma a Private Message
Yes Hook, she is just a plain old Quarter horse.

I am looking to putting in an arena, maybe in the next three months or so. About 90' by 120' - mostly just for a safe place to ride until we have figured each other out.

I am a little intimidated by all the training methods and styles out there, and of course everyone wants you to buy "their" special product...and quite frankly I don't have the money, I will make do with what I have and only buy what I need. But I am sure there are some things that are worth the money. Any suggestions here?

How about clicker training - I did that with my dogs and they love it, but it relies heavily on food treats in the beginning. Maybe I could stand with a pocket full of pellets and toss them into the food dish one at a time so she doesn't come to me for food...

Equine affair is coming up in Feb. Guess I will be saving my money for that.

Ha ha Fractured Bones,,
quote:
It's kind of interesting when the only horse around. My experience they bond to you even more closely...changes though when another 4 legger comes into the picture!


My husband barely accepted me getting this free horse...it will be a long time before we expand our herd..
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alidansma
Tenderfoot

7 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2005 :  10:43:41 AM  Show Profile  Visit alidansma's Homepage Send alidansma a Private Message
Yes Red Hawk, I see what you mean about leading, and that is how I led in the beginning...but she kept bumping into me or trying to walk ahead. I mean she wanted to be almost on top of me... So should I just walk with my hand on the lead rope held farther away from my body??
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alidansma
Tenderfoot

7 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2005 :  10:43:41 AM  Show Profile  Visit alidansma's Homepage Send alidansma a Private Message
Yes Red Hawk, I see what you mean about leading, and that is how I led in the beginning...but she kept bumping into me or trying to walk ahead. I mean she wanted to be almost on top of me... So should I just walk with my hand on the lead rope held farther away from my body??
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Red Hawk
Clinician



USA
5092 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2005 :  11:28:26 AM  Show Profile Send Red Hawk a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by alidansma

Yes Red Hawk, I see what you mean about leading, and that is how I led in the beginning...but she kept bumping into me or trying to walk ahead. I mean she wanted to be almost on top of me... So should I just walk with my hand on the lead rope held farther away from my body??



Sorry, I didn't know that. LOL

When she starts to pull ahead of you, I'd let out the rope about 4 or 5 feet, pull her head toward you, and let her circle about you for a turn or two, and then pull her back in. I'd also be enforcing the word "Whoa" when stopping her. Usually a horse is more willing to stop when leading if you turn to face her from where you're leading her from the side. I'd take a few steps, turn, and tell her whoa with a sharp jerk on the lead. Then take a few more steps and do it, again. If she's trying to walk off on you, she is definitely not respecting your authority over her. She's the herd leader. Enforcing the whoa command will give you a handle on making her not try to walk too far ahead of you when you're leading her. When stopping, say "Whoa" and then use the physical cue. Eventually, she should discover that if she stops when you say whoa, that you won't pull on her head. If she's still giving you problems, I'd suggest putting a chain under her chin for more control. If she still insists on trying to walk too far ahead of you, after stopping her, I'd face her a back her up several steps very quickly and tell her "NO!" in a very angry voice. These things may have to be repeated a few times to get her thinking, "Gee, maybe I better listen to what she's telling me to do!"

The crowding issue is another sign of dominance. I'd push her over with my hand and tell her no every time she does it. If you can watch her closely and see when she's about to do it, you can stop it before it happens. Same thing with the walking to far ahead of you when you're leading her. The earlier you can catch it before she actually does it, the easier it is to correct.

Both of these behaviors are unacceptable and dangerous to the handler. If the horse doesn't respond to your firmer handling, then you may have to resort to force... but only as a last resort. Try everything else first. A good example is the crowding issue. If pushing her over doesn't work, then I'd carry a crop or whip to enforce making her get over. But making her stop every few feet before she trys to walk too far ahead and maybe a quick back up is probably your best option in that situation.

"God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses"
--Robert Browning

Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
-- Author Unknown
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Red Hawk
Clinician



USA
5092 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2005 :  11:28:26 AM  Show Profile Send Red Hawk a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by alidansma

Yes Red Hawk, I see what you mean about leading, and that is how I led in the beginning...but she kept bumping into me or trying to walk ahead. I mean she wanted to be almost on top of me... So should I just walk with my hand on the lead rope held farther away from my body??



Sorry, I didn't know that. LOL

When she starts to pull ahead of you, I'd let out the rope about 4 or 5 feet, pull her head toward you, and let her circle about you for a turn or two, and then pull her back in. I'd also be enforcing the word "Whoa" when stopping her. Usually a horse is more willing to stop when leading if you turn to face her from where you're leading her from the side. I'd take a few steps, turn, and tell her whoa with a sharp jerk on the lead. Then take a few more steps and do it, again. If she's trying to walk off on you, she is definitely not respecting your authority over her. She's the herd leader. Enforcing the whoa command will give you a handle on making her not try to walk too far ahead of you when you're leading her. When stopping, say "Whoa" and then use the physical cue. Eventually, she should discover that if she stops when you say whoa, that you won't pull on her head. If she's still giving you problems, I'd suggest putting a chain under her chin for more control. If she still insists on trying to walk too far ahead of you, after stopping her, I'd face her a back her up several steps very quickly and tell her "NO!" in a very angry voice. These things may have to be repeated a few times to get her thinking, "Gee, maybe I better listen to what she's telling me to do!"

The crowding issue is another sign of dominance. I'd push her over with my hand and tell her no every time she does it. If you can watch her closely and see when she's about to do it, you can stop it before it happens. Same thing with the walking to far ahead of you when you're leading her. The earlier you can catch it before she actually does it, the easier it is to correct.

Both of these behaviors are unacceptable and dangerous to the handler. If the horse doesn't respond to your firmer handling, then you may have to resort to force... but only as a last resort. Try everything else first. A good example is the crowding issue. If pushing her over doesn't work, then I'd carry a crop or whip to enforce making her get over. But making her stop every few feet before she trys to walk too far ahead and maybe a quick back up is probably your best option in that situation.

"God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses"
--Robert Browning

Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
-- Author Unknown
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fracturedbones
Clinician



3424 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2005 :  12:32:12 PM  Show Profile  Visit fracturedbones's Homepage Send fracturedbones a Private Message
Alidansma, are you talking about the Equine Fair in Pomona? I know there is one coming up there in Feb. Went last year, was pretty neat. Boo hoo, Clinton won't be there.....he is great to watch for the Respect and Control thing and general entertainment! Has a step by step DVD with same name...goes to the heart of the matter and blonde friendly Worth the $$ for the do-it -yourselfer. Lot os stuff they don't teach you in formal lessons since it is ground work.

I quit the hand treats to stop the mouthing/space invader thing and just put them in their feeders. It helped. Occ. hand treats ok now, they learn. Was thinking 3 ft. behind you leading sounded pretty far also.

I've heard good things about clicker training but personally don['t know much about it. Not sure how that translates into saddle, and what if you drop the darned clicker??? On trail?

For groundwork, basics for me would be a knotted rope halter (although halter works too), 14 ft lead, training stick or crop or lunge whip . Without paying the big name prices, go to www.handcraftedjewls.com if you are interested. Half the price, custom made, fast mailing and quality stuff (lead, rope halter, training stick which can double for lunge whip with string added).

Just wait, hubby will cave on that 2nd horse.... Just don't show him the bills
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fracturedbones
Clinician



3424 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2005 :  12:32:12 PM  Show Profile  Visit fracturedbones's Homepage Send fracturedbones a Private Message
Alidansma, are you talking about the Equine Fair in Pomona? I know there is one coming up there in Feb. Went last year, was pretty neat. Boo hoo, Clinton won't be there.....he is great to watch for the Respect and Control thing and general entertainment! Has a step by step DVD with same name...goes to the heart of the matter and blonde friendly Worth the $$ for the do-it -yourselfer. Lot os stuff they don't teach you in formal lessons since it is ground work.

I quit the hand treats to stop the mouthing/space invader thing and just put them in their feeders. It helped. Occ. hand treats ok now, they learn. Was thinking 3 ft. behind you leading sounded pretty far also.

I've heard good things about clicker training but personally don['t know much about it. Not sure how that translates into saddle, and what if you drop the darned clicker??? On trail?

For groundwork, basics for me would be a knotted rope halter (although halter works too), 14 ft lead, training stick or crop or lunge whip . Without paying the big name prices, go to www.handcraftedjewls.com if you are interested. Half the price, custom made, fast mailing and quality stuff (lead, rope halter, training stick which can double for lunge whip with string added).

Just wait, hubby will cave on that 2nd horse.... Just don't show him the bills
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Saddletramp
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
2546 Posts

Posted - 12/13/2005 :  10:17:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit Saddletramp's Homepage Send Saddletramp a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by alidansma

Yes Hook, she is just a plain old Quarter horse.




Hey, we quarter horse people have the numbers on our side! Largest horse registry, yada, yada! So there ain't nothin' plain about her! She's in good company! hehehe

Love the bays!! Thanks for sharing, and welcome, alidansma!

-Saddletramp

"She never moved the stars from their courses,
but she loved a good man and she rode good horses"
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