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Red Hawk
Clinician



USA
5092 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2005 :  12:55:20 PM  Show Profile Send Red Hawk a Private Message
I agree 100% with Stormie on this one.

CSW; Would you drive a car without any knowledge of how to drive one? Would you use any piece of machinery without first understanding how to operate it? I realize a horse is a breathing, living animal, but in this case it is no different. If no one has ever shown you how to ride safely including bridling & saddling the horse, you are putting yourself in grave danger. Even with permission, there is no way I would get on a horse I've never been on in a herd environment. Heck, I wouldn't even do that with a horse I've known for years and with a bridle & saddle.

And the owners are crazy in one respect. Your word that if you get hurt, it's at your own risk would never hold up in court. You could still sue them because they are liable for the actions of those horses. The horses are their property. And I, for one, would never forgive myself if I let you do something that could be life threatening. You can get seriously injured on a horse you've ridden for years. Think how much greater that risk is in the situation you're talking about.

I'm not trying to crush your dreams with this horse you've been riding. I just cringe when I think of you putting yourself in such danger. I care that you stay whole and in one piece. An accident in a herd of horses can happen in an instant, and you won't even realize it's happened until it's over and you discover you're in serious trouble with no one at hand to help you get to a hospital. I know... I've been there.

In my younger days, I would've thought what you are doing is the coolest thing in the world. Sounds a lot like the Black Stallion books, but remember... that's a fantasy and not reality. Wake up and read more of the posts made on this board. When taking up riding:

#1. Buy or lease a horse or ride a schooling horse under a competent instructor.

#2. Have someone instruct you on the proper use of a halter, lead, saddle, & bridle.

#3. Always wear proper safety equipment such as a certified riding helmet.

#4. Ride in a safe environment (such as an arena, a round pen, or a small lot) and under supervision until you know enough to go it alone.

Until you do all these things, you have no business fooling around with horses. I sincerely hope you take this as it's intended. What you are doing scares me to death. I know it takes money to do all this, and if you can't afford it at this time, you really ought to wait until you can. The time will come with just a little patience.

Please be safe. Those that play with fire usually get burned, and I say this with your safety as the #1 priority in my mind. You sound like a nice girl. Let's just keep you whole... okay?

I know, I know... I ought to change my user name to worry wart, but can anybody blame me?

"God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses"
--Robert Browning

Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
-- Author Unknown
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Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2005 :  1:26:35 PM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
Hawk I feel the same way so don't worry about being a worry wart! lol Actually I think most horse people would feel that way. But I had to admit that I worry more about the horse then the human. Humans know what they are doing a horse is forced to do it. Many of the people I end up helping are just like CSW and even if they don't get hurt themselves the horse pays for their lack of common sense and horse knowledge. Horses can get hurt also and their training gets ruined by people that dosn't know what they are doing. I can tell countless stories about stupid human mistakes that caused the horses great harm.

My worst riding injuries all came from horses I had owned for a number years. The one that left me laying the field for a couple hours was a horse that I not only trained and ridden for 3 years by had from birth. It was not his fault, he got scared and I went off because I wasn't ready for it. It was a freak thing. I did have a helmet on. I have broke a number of helmets over the years and have even hit hard enough to have injuries with a helmet so I am a firm believer in them.

The idea that you(CSW) didn't see a horse owner having a problem makes me wonder if you are grown up enough to even handle this safely. I could see my younger nieces thinking that way but not a college student. Money is always an issue unless you have billions but here you are spending money on buying stuff for a horse you don't know and spending gas to get out there and you might be able to find and pay for good lessons. Or spend that time really learning about horses. Uneducated horsepeople do more damgage to horses then they think.

Now it is driving me up the wall as to what they are calling these horses??/ I have a good idea about what the little **** means up until someone said they normally are hurt horses. Blonde I am so I must have missed something. LOL
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Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2005 :  1:26:35 PM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
Hawk I feel the same way so don't worry about being a worry wart! lol Actually I think most horse people would feel that way. But I had to admit that I worry more about the horse then the human. Humans know what they are doing a horse is forced to do it. Many of the people I end up helping are just like CSW and even if they don't get hurt themselves the horse pays for their lack of common sense and horse knowledge. Horses can get hurt also and their training gets ruined by people that dosn't know what they are doing. I can tell countless stories about stupid human mistakes that caused the horses great harm.

My worst riding injuries all came from horses I had owned for a number years. The one that left me laying the field for a couple hours was a horse that I not only trained and ridden for 3 years by had from birth. It was not his fault, he got scared and I went off because I wasn't ready for it. It was a freak thing. I did have a helmet on. I have broke a number of helmets over the years and have even hit hard enough to have injuries with a helmet so I am a firm believer in them.

The idea that you(CSW) didn't see a horse owner having a problem makes me wonder if you are grown up enough to even handle this safely. I could see my younger nieces thinking that way but not a college student. Money is always an issue unless you have billions but here you are spending money on buying stuff for a horse you don't know and spending gas to get out there and you might be able to find and pay for good lessons. Or spend that time really learning about horses. Uneducated horsepeople do more damgage to horses then they think.

Now it is driving me up the wall as to what they are calling these horses??/ I have a good idea about what the little **** means up until someone said they normally are hurt horses. Blonde I am so I must have missed something. LOL
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Red Hawk
Clinician



USA
5092 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2005 :  3:02:51 PM  Show Profile Send Red Hawk a Private Message
Stormie; The horse would be my second priority in CSW's case. I know exactly what you mean about ruining a horse or tearing apart years of patient training to get a horse to a point to compete in serious competition. Like you, I've been there.

I know I hadn't ridden Dove much one Summer, and he'd been ridden a lot by my students. So, I decided to give him a treat and take him to Salamonie for the day. He loved it, but talk about not listening! Those girls had let him get away with enough mistakes that he thought he could do it with me! I straightened him out in short order, and I'm sure he was thinking, "Oh darn! That's Mom up there on me! I better behave!"

I'll remember your story about Coal for a long time, too. And that proves what those who don't know much about horses can do. I'm totally on your side, my friend.

"God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses"
--Robert Browning

Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
-- Author Unknown
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Red Hawk
Clinician



USA
5092 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2005 :  3:02:51 PM  Show Profile Send Red Hawk a Private Message
Stormie; The horse would be my second priority in CSW's case. I know exactly what you mean about ruining a horse or tearing apart years of patient training to get a horse to a point to compete in serious competition. Like you, I've been there.

I know I hadn't ridden Dove much one Summer, and he'd been ridden a lot by my students. So, I decided to give him a treat and take him to Salamonie for the day. He loved it, but talk about not listening! Those girls had let him get away with enough mistakes that he thought he could do it with me! I straightened him out in short order, and I'm sure he was thinking, "Oh darn! That's Mom up there on me! I better behave!"

I'll remember your story about Coal for a long time, too. And that proves what those who don't know much about horses can do. I'm totally on your side, my friend.

"God forbid that I should go to any heaven in which there are no horses"
--Robert Browning

Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend.
-- Author Unknown
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Saddletramp
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
2546 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2005 :  3:20:28 PM  Show Profile  Visit Saddletramp's Homepage Send Saddletramp a Private Message
As an aside, I also feel that this is not an ideal situation, but thru postings and replies to other similar horse-issue topics.....we can't make anyone wear a helmet, and we can't make anyone take care on a horse, or ensure that they always use common sense, regardless of how much we worry about someone's safety. So I've pretty much given up on it, but I will not be all sympathetic when someone does get hurt thru their own actions.

And I am with Stormie- the horse pays the price in these situations. And Stormie, when you find out what the **** are, please IM me!

-Saddletramp

"She never moved the stars from their courses,
but she loved a good man and she rode good horses"
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Saddletramp
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
2546 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2005 :  3:20:28 PM  Show Profile  Visit Saddletramp's Homepage Send Saddletramp a Private Message
As an aside, I also feel that this is not an ideal situation, but thru postings and replies to other similar horse-issue topics.....we can't make anyone wear a helmet, and we can't make anyone take care on a horse, or ensure that they always use common sense, regardless of how much we worry about someone's safety. So I've pretty much given up on it, but I will not be all sympathetic when someone does get hurt thru their own actions.

And I am with Stormie- the horse pays the price in these situations. And Stormie, when you find out what the **** are, please IM me!

-Saddletramp

"She never moved the stars from their courses,
but she loved a good man and she rode good horses"
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fracturedbones
Clinician



3424 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2005 :  3:27:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit fracturedbones's Homepage Send fracturedbones a Private Message
Well, I am thinking it is "Slaughter"...?????
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fracturedbones
Clinician



3424 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2005 :  3:27:51 PM  Show Profile  Visit fracturedbones's Homepage Send fracturedbones a Private Message
Well, I am thinking it is "Slaughter"...?????
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Saddletramp
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
2546 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2005 :  3:43:58 PM  Show Profile  Visit Saddletramp's Homepage Send Saddletramp a Private Message
I thought that too....but you just typed the word slaughter and the internet police didn't fine you! Or me!

I have always thought that the *** indicate a prohibited word, in a manner to get it past moderators, etc. I guess, what is so bad about the word slaughter?

-Saddletramp

"She never moved the stars from their courses,
but she loved a good man and she rode good horses"
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Saddletramp
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
2546 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2005 :  3:43:58 PM  Show Profile  Visit Saddletramp's Homepage Send Saddletramp a Private Message
I thought that too....but you just typed the word slaughter and the internet police didn't fine you! Or me!

I have always thought that the *** indicate a prohibited word, in a manner to get it past moderators, etc. I guess, what is so bad about the word slaughter?

-Saddletramp

"She never moved the stars from their courses,
but she loved a good man and she rode good horses"
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ree7
Advanced Rider

USA
164 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2005 :  3:46:34 PM  Show Profile  Visit ree7's Homepage Send ree7 a Private Message
I've been trying to figure out what the stars mean also. Had a guess, but the "ter" after doesn't fit. ;o)
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ree7
Advanced Rider

USA
164 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2005 :  3:46:34 PM  Show Profile  Visit ree7's Homepage Send ree7 a Private Message
I've been trying to figure out what the stars mean also. Had a guess, but the "ter" after doesn't fit. ;o)
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Hook
Trail Boss (Moderator)



Canada
6115 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2005 :  6:58:53 PM  Show Profile  Visit Hook's Homepage Send Hook a Private Message
I though QUARter horse :)

Hook(ed)......on Horses

"The best things in life are nearest: Breath in your nostrils, light in your eyes, flowers at your feet, duties at your hand, the path of right just before you. Then do not grasp at the stars, but do life's plain, common work as it comes, certain that daily duties and daily bread are the sweetest things in life. " Author: Robert Louis Stevenson
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Hook
Trail Boss (Moderator)



Canada
6115 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2005 :  6:58:53 PM  Show Profile  Visit Hook's Homepage Send Hook a Private Message
I though QUARter horse :)

Hook(ed)......on Horses

"The best things in life are nearest: Breath in your nostrils, light in your eyes, flowers at your feet, duties at your hand, the path of right just before you. Then do not grasp at the stars, but do life's plain, common work as it comes, certain that daily duties and daily bread are the sweetest things in life. " Author: Robert Louis Stevenson
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Saddletramp
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
2546 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2005 :  7:06:23 PM  Show Profile  Visit Saddletramp's Homepage Send Saddletramp a Private Message
rofl @ Hook!!! Good one!!

-Saddletramp

"She never moved the stars from their courses,
but she loved a good man and she rode good horses"
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Saddletramp
Trail Boss (Moderator)



USA
2546 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2005 :  7:06:23 PM  Show Profile  Visit Saddletramp's Homepage Send Saddletramp a Private Message
rofl @ Hook!!! Good one!!

-Saddletramp

"She never moved the stars from their courses,
but she loved a good man and she rode good horses"
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Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2005 :  8:56:06 PM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
I'm thinking that the board is set up to turn some worded into ***'s that's what the board that I am mod on does and it's very much a pain in the butt because it will cut out a section of a word<removed by Chuck>. I'm thinking that in this case the **** is......well manure in other words. I didn't get the feeling that it was slaughter when someone said tendon injuries but I guess that could be the way they are headed since some don't want to bother with them. Then again if they where headed to slaughter they would haul them all at once instead of only a couple at a time.


SaddleTramp

I have dealt with this stuff enough that maybe I'm a little hard hearted towards the humans because I feel more for the horse then the human. I don't want them to get hurt of course and a lack of education sure can do that but if it came down to the horse getting hurt or the human I would wish for a good set of black and blue marks on the human. Not enough to really hurt them but hopefully enough to knock some sense into their brainless skull. Like a good hard landing on the butt, or a set of light tooth marks on the arm. I have also found that sometimes with the ones that really do care about the animal a good scared about them hurting the animal can get them going in the right direction.
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Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2005 :  8:56:06 PM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
I'm thinking that the board is set up to turn some worded into ***'s that's what the board that I am mod on does and it's very much a pain in the butt because it will cut out a section of a word<removed by Chuck>. I'm thinking that in this case the **** is......well manure in other words. I didn't get the feeling that it was slaughter when someone said tendon injuries but I guess that could be the way they are headed since some don't want to bother with them. Then again if they where headed to slaughter they would haul them all at once instead of only a couple at a time.


SaddleTramp

I have dealt with this stuff enough that maybe I'm a little hard hearted towards the humans because I feel more for the horse then the human. I don't want them to get hurt of course and a lack of education sure can do that but if it came down to the horse getting hurt or the human I would wish for a good set of black and blue marks on the human. Not enough to really hurt them but hopefully enough to knock some sense into their brainless skull. Like a good hard landing on the butt, or a set of light tooth marks on the arm. I have also found that sometimes with the ones that really do care about the animal a good scared about them hurting the animal can get them going in the right direction.
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Chuck
Forum Admin



USA
1265 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2005 :  9:36:53 PM  Show Profile  Visit Chuck's Homepage Send Chuck a Private Message
quote:
I'm thinking that the board is set up to turn some worded into ***'s that's what the board that I am mod on does and it's very much a pain in the butt because it will cut out a section of a word. I'm thinking that in this case the **** is......well manure in other words.


You are right in thinking the board is set up this way. I have to add that it is by me and for a purpose. My intent is to run these forums without even a hint of sordid language.

Chuck

Horse Saddle Shop

http://www.horsesaddleshop.com
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Chuck
Forum Admin



USA
1265 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2005 :  9:36:53 PM  Show Profile  Visit Chuck's Homepage Send Chuck a Private Message
quote:
I'm thinking that the board is set up to turn some worded into ***'s that's what the board that I am mod on does and it's very much a pain in the butt because it will cut out a section of a word. I'm thinking that in this case the **** is......well manure in other words.


You are right in thinking the board is set up this way. I have to add that it is by me and for a purpose. My intent is to run these forums without even a hint of sordid language.

Chuck

Horse Saddle Shop

http://www.horsesaddleshop.com
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countryside_wave
Groomer



USA
40 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2005 :  10:13:28 PM  Show Profile  Visit countryside_wave's Homepage Send countryside_wave a Private Message
Southern- no at first when I just used verbal command only he didn't do a thing. I really had to lean into it but now with leaning and verbal cues he does fine. The lady took the other horse to a different lot that needed another mare??? And would in her words would "be better with a different group". I donít know..

The other horses don't look to bad, chipped hoofs and scars are all. The one that had the split hoof has pretty much healed.

I've been riding him for a month now but I only go up there about once or twice a week and I don't ride every time.

A am aware of the risks that come with riding, Iíve been bucked off and stepped on before. Not by this horse, it was at a horseback camp and they gave me a fat moody mare that gave birth in the spring and needed the exercise. I also know that any horse can be harmful, even Shady. I am grateful for your concerns. My cell does get service most the time.

When I talked to the guy he said most of them are broke and people (Yakima Indians) sometimes take them riding but just told me to stay off the white one. I asked him specifically about the black one with the one white boot (Shady) if he was in good health and he said yes that horse is good and that he's been out there for three years. So they must keep records.

I'm hoping that Iíll run into more people out there that can teach me more about horses and riding. It seems like there would be more people up there the Yakima tribe is a big group, but in all this time that lady is the only one Iíve ran into. I guess itís all in timing.

I would never sue if I got hurt, but it is wired that he didnít have me sign anything. Maybe itís because itís on the reservation and they donít have to go by those kinds of law?

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countryside_wave
Groomer



USA
40 Posts

Posted - 12/10/2005 :  10:13:28 PM  Show Profile  Visit countryside_wave's Homepage Send countryside_wave a Private Message
Southern- no at first when I just used verbal command only he didn't do a thing. I really had to lean into it but now with leaning and verbal cues he does fine. The lady took the other horse to a different lot that needed another mare??? And would in her words would "be better with a different group". I donít know..

The other horses don't look to bad, chipped hoofs and scars are all. The one that had the split hoof has pretty much healed.

I've been riding him for a month now but I only go up there about once or twice a week and I don't ride every time.

A am aware of the risks that come with riding, Iíve been bucked off and stepped on before. Not by this horse, it was at a horseback camp and they gave me a fat moody mare that gave birth in the spring and needed the exercise. I also know that any horse can be harmful, even Shady. I am grateful for your concerns. My cell does get service most the time.

When I talked to the guy he said most of them are broke and people (Yakima Indians) sometimes take them riding but just told me to stay off the white one. I asked him specifically about the black one with the one white boot (Shady) if he was in good health and he said yes that horse is good and that he's been out there for three years. So they must keep records.

I'm hoping that Iíll run into more people out there that can teach me more about horses and riding. It seems like there would be more people up there the Yakima tribe is a big group, but in all this time that lady is the only one Iíve ran into. I guess itís all in timing.

I would never sue if I got hurt, but it is wired that he didnít have me sign anything. Maybe itís because itís on the reservation and they donít have to go by those kinds of law?

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Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2005 :  12:23:21 AM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
Chuck

I understand why you have it set up that way. Personally I think it's wrong to just cut up someone's post. I know as owner you have the right but I would have willing edited it if you would have asked. It's not the first time something I typed was wiped off this board. I would like to know why the first one was(I understand this time)???? On the board I mod on we(including the owners) are not allowed to edit anyone's posts only delete or lock. To the person it feels rude to do have your words edited. I hate to delete anything and fight myself about it. I also always give people a reason unless it's like the 10th time they have broke the same rule.


CSW

A lot of people say they would never sue but it comes right down to it and they are laying at the ER with the Doctor telling them they will probable never walk again or worst yet the doctor telling family members the person is gone the cards are different and lawyers get called. You can say it all you want now but when it comes right down to it you might not feel the same way.

Also it's not so much a law(well it is) but a safety thing. A way to hopefully cover your butt if someone does try to sue you. It isn't something that someone should need a law to do it but something that you would want to do to help if the lawyers get called in. Being on the reservation would not stop them from getting sued if you got hurt and you or your family decided to sue. Heck I could see someone doing something stupid and getting hurt and then trying to sue everyone including people on a board like this. Don't laugh there has been cases like that.
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Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 12/11/2005 :  12:23:21 AM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
Chuck

I understand why you have it set up that way. Personally I think it's wrong to just cut up someone's post. I know as owner you have the right but I would have willing edited it if you would have asked. It's not the first time something I typed was wiped off this board. I would like to know why the first one was(I understand this time)???? On the board I mod on we(including the owners) are not allowed to edit anyone's posts only delete or lock. To the person it feels rude to do have your words edited. I hate to delete anything and fight myself about it. I also always give people a reason unless it's like the 10th time they have broke the same rule.


CSW

A lot of people say they would never sue but it comes right down to it and they are laying at the ER with the Doctor telling them they will probable never walk again or worst yet the doctor telling family members the person is gone the cards are different and lawyers get called. You can say it all you want now but when it comes right down to it you might not feel the same way.

Also it's not so much a law(well it is) but a safety thing. A way to hopefully cover your butt if someone does try to sue you. It isn't something that someone should need a law to do it but something that you would want to do to help if the lawyers get called in. Being on the reservation would not stop them from getting sued if you got hurt and you or your family decided to sue. Heck I could see someone doing something stupid and getting hurt and then trying to sue everyone including people on a board like this. Don't laugh there has been cases like that.
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