Daily Equine Forum Visit Horse Saddle Shop Read Horse Saddle Shops Blog Horse Saddle Shop Twitter Horse Saddle Shop Facebook Image Map
Daily Equine Forum
Home | Profile | Register | Active Topics |Recent Messages | Active Polls | Members | Private Messages | Search | FAQ
Username:
Password:
Save Password
Forgot your Password?

 All Forums
 Caring and Owning Horses
 Grooming and Health
 Grain/Feed while on good grass yet?
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly
Previous Page
Author Previous Topic Topic Next Topic
Page: of 2

Frost
Beginning Rider



USA
115 Posts

Posted - 11/02/2005 :  10:59:02 PM  Show Profile  Visit Frost's Homepage Send Frost a Private Message
I agree with you appygirl. I belive grains are there for some energy and "extra value" of a source of nutrients from the lacking of dry hay in the winters. I also agree with Stormie, in that I feel it is a grave mistake to make a "pretty" pasture by only planting one species of grass and manicuring it like a golf green. A little of this, a little of that, some dandylions, some quackgrass and brome grass, (althoght NO Downy Brome!!), some assorted clovers of red mixed in and some nice weeds here and there do give the pasture it's value, to the horse, and not necessarily to the looks of the owner.

Grain provides something that is lacking in put up hay used in the winter, mostly protiens and extra carbohydrates. There are some trace minerals, no doubt, but the bigges boost is the carbohydrate. That is why overuse in this department can lead to more harm than good.

Vern

Former Nebraskan... Fix it with bailing wire and a welder.. I Remember when rocks were soft and dirt was new!

Edited by - Frost on 11/02/2005 11:09:20 PM
Go to Top of Page

Frost
Beginning Rider



USA
115 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2005 :  7:08:16 PM  Show Profile  Visit Frost's Homepage Send Frost a Private Message
I called my cousin, Larry Rittenhouse last night and will share with you his insight on forages and grains for horses. Horses on pasture need little to no grains unless it is very cold -20 F or so and that helps to improve the carbohydrate level. Horses also forage more than they suspected, around 18 hours a day on the average. They put a "vibra-recorder" on horses to gain some insight on their eating habits. Seems that they forage almost as much at night as they do during the day, even in darkness with no moon. That's a lot of foraging. He has been in Iceland where range horses in the North Higland went the winter at -40 below with no grain whatever. He said they were a lot skinnier, but they managed to do alright.

Horses can get colic from too much of a good thing, and that includes grains. Most are quite happy with good forage hay and do not need the extras, like cake, that cattle do for ruminating. Nitrogen levels in feed are quite important to a cow, but not nearly so to an equine.

Larry has been around this stuff a long time, and I just happened to think of him last night. Gave me a good excuse to say howdy to him. His qualifications??

http://www.warnercnr.colostate.edu/frws/people/faculty/rittenhouse/rittenhousevitae.html

He's written one or two books and subject matter on the nutritional requirements of foraging animals.. perhaps one of the best in this country. gotta brag huh?? *S*


Vern

Former Nebraskan... Fix it with bailing wire and a welder.. I Remember when rocks were soft and dirt was new!
Go to Top of Page

Frost
Beginning Rider



USA
115 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2005 :  7:08:16 PM  Show Profile  Visit Frost's Homepage Send Frost a Private Message
I called my cousin, Larry Rittenhouse last night and will share with you his insight on forages and grains for horses. Horses on pasture need little to no grains unless it is very cold -20 F or so and that helps to improve the carbohydrate level. Horses also forage more than they suspected, around 18 hours a day on the average. They put a "vibra-recorder" on horses to gain some insight on their eating habits. Seems that they forage almost as much at night as they do during the day, even in darkness with no moon. That's a lot of foraging. He has been in Iceland where range horses in the North Higland went the winter at -40 below with no grain whatever. He said they were a lot skinnier, but they managed to do alright.

Horses can get colic from too much of a good thing, and that includes grains. Most are quite happy with good forage hay and do not need the extras, like cake, that cattle do for ruminating. Nitrogen levels in feed are quite important to a cow, but not nearly so to an equine.

Larry has been around this stuff a long time, and I just happened to think of him last night. Gave me a good excuse to say howdy to him. His qualifications??

http://www.warnercnr.colostate.edu/frws/people/faculty/rittenhouse/rittenhousevitae.html

He's written one or two books and subject matter on the nutritional requirements of foraging animals.. perhaps one of the best in this country. gotta brag huh?? *S*


Vern

Former Nebraskan... Fix it with bailing wire and a welder.. I Remember when rocks were soft and dirt was new!
Go to Top of Page

Hook
Trail Boss (Moderator)



Canada
6115 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2005 :  9:48:46 PM  Show Profile  Visit Hook's Homepage Send Hook a Private Message
Holey Smollies. What a listing of qualifications ans experience. Sounds like an expert alright. Did I happen to miss it or does he have horses and the full on-hands experience or does he get his practical horse advice from you?

Ed

"How Tyme Flys"
Go to Top of Page

Hook
Trail Boss (Moderator)



Canada
6115 Posts

Posted - 11/03/2005 :  9:48:46 PM  Show Profile  Visit Hook's Homepage Send Hook a Private Message
Holey Smollies. What a listing of qualifications ans experience. Sounds like an expert alright. Did I happen to miss it or does he have horses and the full on-hands experience or does he get his practical horse advice from you?

Ed

"How Tyme Flys"
Go to Top of Page

Frost
Beginning Rider



USA
115 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2005 :  01:02:10 AM  Show Profile  Visit Frost's Homepage Send Frost a Private Message
Larry gave me my first ride on a Quarter Horse, named "Flicka" when I was around 7 years old. I was born in 1953 and he was born in 1940, so he has been around horses for quite some time. I wouldn't begin to presume that I know that much about horses, because I am learning all the time. Larry is gifted in the field of animal nutrition as it relates to herbivores and particularly foragers like sheep, cattle, horses and goats. He probably leans more heavily into bovine nutrition, since it is more vital to the welfare and economics of cattlemen not only of this country, but others as well. However, the horse is also a forager, and as such, has been studied for nutritional requirements as well. I could teach Larry something about wine making, since that is my profession, but he could look at a field and name each plant by it's latin name, and not only know that but have a pretty good grasps on whether it would be choosen by a horse, a cow, a sheep, etc.. and why. Ironically, his Dad, my Uncle Evan, taught me about winemaking early on when I was still in High School. Albeit simplistic winemaking but it started me to research and learn more about it. Simply put it is an art form 95% and about 5% science (winemaking). Nutrition of foraging animals is also an applied science of understanding of what is good and not so good for the animals we love. Yes, Larry has horses and although he is not Tom Dorance or Ray Hunt, he has an understading of what needs they may have nutritionally.

Vern

Former Nebraskan... Fix it with bailing wire and a welder.. I Remember when rocks were soft and dirt was new!
Go to Top of Page

Frost
Beginning Rider



USA
115 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2005 :  01:02:10 AM  Show Profile  Visit Frost's Homepage Send Frost a Private Message
Larry gave me my first ride on a Quarter Horse, named "Flicka" when I was around 7 years old. I was born in 1953 and he was born in 1940, so he has been around horses for quite some time. I wouldn't begin to presume that I know that much about horses, because I am learning all the time. Larry is gifted in the field of animal nutrition as it relates to herbivores and particularly foragers like sheep, cattle, horses and goats. He probably leans more heavily into bovine nutrition, since it is more vital to the welfare and economics of cattlemen not only of this country, but others as well. However, the horse is also a forager, and as such, has been studied for nutritional requirements as well. I could teach Larry something about wine making, since that is my profession, but he could look at a field and name each plant by it's latin name, and not only know that but have a pretty good grasps on whether it would be choosen by a horse, a cow, a sheep, etc.. and why. Ironically, his Dad, my Uncle Evan, taught me about winemaking early on when I was still in High School. Albeit simplistic winemaking but it started me to research and learn more about it. Simply put it is an art form 95% and about 5% science (winemaking). Nutrition of foraging animals is also an applied science of understanding of what is good and not so good for the animals we love. Yes, Larry has horses and although he is not Tom Dorance or Ray Hunt, he has an understading of what needs they may have nutritionally.

Vern

Former Nebraskan... Fix it with bailing wire and a welder.. I Remember when rocks were soft and dirt was new!
Go to Top of Page

Hook
Trail Boss (Moderator)



Canada
6115 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2005 :  10:28:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit Hook's Homepage Send Hook a Private Message
I agrre with Larry. Good pasture with a varity of grasses and Legumes should be sufficient for most horse. I personnlly like a ration balancer suited for the type of pasture avialable with a little grain supplimentation if required to maintain body weight.

Ed

"How Tyme Flys"
Go to Top of Page

Hook
Trail Boss (Moderator)



Canada
6115 Posts

Posted - 11/04/2005 :  10:28:43 PM  Show Profile  Visit Hook's Homepage Send Hook a Private Message
I agrre with Larry. Good pasture with a varity of grasses and Legumes should be sufficient for most horse. I personnlly like a ration balancer suited for the type of pasture avialable with a little grain supplimentation if required to maintain body weight.

Ed

"How Tyme Flys"
Go to Top of Page

Frost
Beginning Rider



USA
115 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2005 :  02:47:36 AM  Show Profile  Visit Frost's Homepage Send Frost a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Hook

I agree with Larry. Good pasture with a varity of grasses and Legumes should be sufficient for most horse. I personally like a ration balancer suited for the type of pasture avialable with a little grain supplimentation if required to maintain body weight.

Ed

"How Tyme Flys"



Ed, you hit the nail right on the head with that last part of your sentence. It's the owners individual PREFERENCE of how much body weight he wishes to keep on the horse. Feed suplements and grains are energy sources for maintaining, or helping to maintain, correct body weight. They do provide some additional protiens, and other trace minerals, but a lot of trace minerals can also be supplied by the mineral block that a horse has free access to. Most cattlemen I know woudld preferr not to sell cattle in the middle of winter unless price opportunity dictated a sell. Cows loose weight in the winter months, and pack it back on in the summertime. Beef are sold year round, obviously, but the cattle that go to slaughter are not comming off the ranch pasture, but rather off the intense feeding structure of so many feedlots that dot our nation. A feedlot is entirely a whole different ball game for weight maintenance/gain as compared to the natural pasture/hay proposition.

.... I think I'm too windy!!

Vern

Former Nebraskan... Fix it with bailing wire and a welder.. I Remember when rocks were soft and dirt was new!
Go to Top of Page

Frost
Beginning Rider



USA
115 Posts

Posted - 11/05/2005 :  02:47:36 AM  Show Profile  Visit Frost's Homepage Send Frost a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Hook

I agree with Larry. Good pasture with a varity of grasses and Legumes should be sufficient for most horse. I personally like a ration balancer suited for the type of pasture avialable with a little grain supplimentation if required to maintain body weight.

Ed

"How Tyme Flys"



Ed, you hit the nail right on the head with that last part of your sentence. It's the owners individual PREFERENCE of how much body weight he wishes to keep on the horse. Feed suplements and grains are energy sources for maintaining, or helping to maintain, correct body weight. They do provide some additional protiens, and other trace minerals, but a lot of trace minerals can also be supplied by the mineral block that a horse has free access to. Most cattlemen I know woudld preferr not to sell cattle in the middle of winter unless price opportunity dictated a sell. Cows loose weight in the winter months, and pack it back on in the summertime. Beef are sold year round, obviously, but the cattle that go to slaughter are not comming off the ranch pasture, but rather off the intense feeding structure of so many feedlots that dot our nation. A feedlot is entirely a whole different ball game for weight maintenance/gain as compared to the natural pasture/hay proposition.

.... I think I'm too windy!!

Vern

Former Nebraskan... Fix it with bailing wire and a welder.. I Remember when rocks were soft and dirt was new!
Go to Top of Page

Hook
Trail Boss (Moderator)



Canada
6115 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2006 :  06:59:04 AM  Show Profile  Visit Hook's Homepage Send Hook a Private Message
Vern;

How are your horses doing in this weather? Mssing you on the Forum. Hope things are Okay.

Hook(ed)......on Horses

"The best things in life are nearest: Breath in your nostrils, light in your eyes, flowers at your feet, duties at your hand, the path of right just before you. Then do not grasp at the stars, but do life's plain, common work as it comes, certain that daily duties and daily bread are the sweetest things in life. " Author: Robert Louis Stevenson
Go to Top of Page

Frost
Beginning Rider



USA
115 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2006 :  09:27:09 AM  Show Profile  Visit Frost's Homepage Send Frost a Private Message
Thanks for the asking, Ed!! Yep, everything is going good here at Jenefarm.. LOL It's been kind of muddy, as we have not had much snow until just last night/morning. There was quite a bit of snow early on around and just before Christmas, but lately it's just been "MUD"!!

Promise our horse get's her ration of hay every morning and looks forward to it. She also looks forward to the bit of Purina "Strategy" that we give here around 5:00 ish She gets one of those "can't belive it's not butter" amounts, not the huge tub but around 16 ounces. No big major amount, I know, but she likes it amost as a treat and it kind of helps supplement that which might been missing in just timmothy hay. It's not the recommended rate that Purina has, but she has not lost any weight and has a good healthy furry coat.

Will also give her a few alfalfa cubes to go along with the has as well. Not too many, as I don't want to introduce too much of anything different in the rations of winter.

Vern

Former Nebraskan...
"The quickest way to double your money is to fold it over and put it back in your pocket."

'May the HORSE be with you!' Gentle as possible, yet firm as necessary.
"I like to ride bareback, and sometimes I even wear a shirt!"

Edited by - Frost on 02/05/2006 09:29:57 AM
Go to Top of Page

Hook
Trail Boss (Moderator)



Canada
6115 Posts

Posted - 02/05/2006 :  6:34:55 PM  Show Profile  Visit Hook's Homepage Send Hook a Private Message
Good to hear from you.
Sounds like the diet is Okay. You may want to try a ration balancer like TDI Progressive or Buckeye. We switched to this last year and the horses appear to more healthy with stonger hooves and nice coats. Only need to feed 2 or 3 pounds per day as reccommeneded by the manufacturer, then add oats if necessary to maintain weight. The amount of grain we need since using the ration balancer has been reduced significantly.

Know what you mean about the weather. Mud everywhere. We received about 6 inches of heavy wet snow last night and more to come.

Hook(ed)......on Horses

"The best things in life are nearest: Breath in your nostrils, light in your eyes, flowers at your feet, duties at your hand, the path of right just before you. Then do not grasp at the stars, but do life's plain, common work as it comes, certain that daily duties and daily bread are the sweetest things in life. " Author: Robert Louis Stevenson
Go to Top of Page

Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2006 :  01:30:49 AM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
Hook

I can't find TDI Progressive on their Website does it have another name?
Go to Top of Page

Hook
Trail Boss (Moderator)



Canada
6115 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2006 :  05:24:05 AM  Show Profile  Visit Hook's Homepage Send Hook a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Stormie

Hook

I can't find TDI Progressive on their Website does it have another name?



Mrs. hook gave me the name as the website. We use TDI10 for regular use and TDI 30 for the growing horses, old horse and pregnant mare. Use only the recommended amount by weight as it is a supplement.

This is the site http://www.tdihorsefeeds.com/product.asp

Hook(ed)......on Horses

"The best things in life are nearest: Breath in your nostrils, light in your eyes, flowers at your feet, duties at your hand, the path of right just before you. Then do not grasp at the stars, but do life's plain, common work as it comes, certain that daily duties and daily bread are the sweetest things in life. " Author: Robert Louis Stevenson
Go to Top of Page

lil bit
Groomer

USA
46 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2006 :  09:07:45 AM  Show Profile  Visit lil bit's Homepage Send lil bit a Private Message
I have about a 7acre pasture,which my horse has free roam of. We do not stall him. And i feed him about 2 1/2#of super 12 pellets mixed with 1/4 of sweet feed. and about 2 flakes of hay one time a day. He has a free choice of salt and mineral block also. 1 would think he prob. weighs about 900-1000lbs. Is this not enough food or too much food? He is fat cannot see any ribs and he looks a little like he's bloated to me. I heard a horse that was fat was just as bad as a horse that was too skinny. He is moderately active pleasure horse. He is rode about 2-4 times a week. about 30min.- 1hr. at a time. ??

lil bit
Go to Top of Page

Stormie
Clinician

1630 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2006 :  1:10:19 PM  Show Profile  Visit Stormie's Homepage Send Stormie a Private Message
Hook

Thanks. Don't have anyone close to me that sells it though. You say that it's a balancer but it's feed more like a grain no? As in you feed a pound or more, where supplements are fed normally in small amounts. One could feed this in place of grain so that makes me think of it more as a grain. Odd. Anyway I emailed them about the starch levels and they didn't answer that just that there were no dealers close to me.
Go to Top of Page

Frost
Beginning Rider



USA
115 Posts

Posted - 02/06/2006 :  9:54:36 PM  Show Profile  Visit Frost's Homepage Send Frost a Private Message
Hi Lil bit! As far as feeding the horse too much, I'm not sure. How much is your "flake" I can carry some pretty big flakes (nearly 7/8 of the bale or larger.. BIT flake, and my daughter's flakes...well, let's just say it's brunch. I have some squre bales that are packed pretty tight and heavy so a 'flake' from them can be smaller than from a loosely baled hay. I hate to pay $2.50 / bale for that loose stuff as it doesn't have the weight. After all, you are buying for weight. I'd rather pay 3.00 /bale for good tight 50+ lb bales than these 25 or so loose bales that I bought. I find older men tend to bale looser bales. Not sure if it's because they don't want to drag around a heavy bale, or the fact that 1 ton of hay on the ground baled loosely will produce more bales. If you sell by the bale then you get more for the ton! Make sense?

Promise likes this rabbit ration that is mostly compressed alfalfa, but we had to wean her off of that as her ears started groing longer and she started to hop around a bit. Next thing ya know she would have been insisting on carrots!! Wha's up doc?

Vern

Former Nebraskan...
"The quickest way to double your money is to fold it over and put it back in your pocket."

'May the HORSE be with you!' Gentle as possible, yet firm as necessary.
"I like to ride bareback, and sometimes I even wear a shirt!"
Go to Top of Page

lil bit
Groomer

USA
46 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2006 :  11:03:23 AM  Show Profile  Visit lil bit's Homepage Send lil bit a Private Message
frost. im a pretty little person so a flake to me is probably about 1/8 of the bale of hay. One bale of hay lasts me about 4 - 5 days. And im still not sure if about the dead grass in the pasture?? Do they eat it?? He acts like he's out their grazing. The type of hay he gets is coastal hay, whatever that is. $4.25 a bale. I know that its not the alfalfa that is 10.00$ a bale. Too rich for me. lol. We have a few tack and tractor supply shops here so i try to get all the help that i can. Without looking completely dumb.

lil bit
Go to Top of Page

Frost
Beginning Rider



USA
115 Posts

Posted - 02/07/2006 :  1:20:13 PM  Show Profile  Visit Frost's Homepage Send Frost a Private Message
Lil bit.... that is a cute nickname and your horse probably thinks you live up to it! LOL
I feed around 1/3 bale per day and sometimes 1/2 depending again on how heavy the bale is. I don't know about costal hay down there in Georgia, but they can get some value out of dead pasture grass, after all that hay you are feeding is not particularily too live *S*

You really don't want alfalfa for horses unless it's just a little bit. Cattle do exceptionally well on alfalfa, and some of it mixed in with regular timmothy hay (and similar) is good, but not as a complete diet. Depending on who baled it, it can be anything from dusty to sticks too But too rich for you can also be too rich for the horse.

Horses graze about 18 hours a day on the average and ofen graze as much or more during the night. ie term "Hay Burner" comes to mind...

Up here in the north country hay provide necessary food and contentment to the horse, overall, but also provides additional heat as they create internal heat digesting roughage.

Vern

Former Nebraskan...
"The quickest way to double your money is to fold it over and put it back in your pocket."

'May the HORSE be with you!' Gentle as possible, yet firm as necessary.
"I like to ride bareback, and sometimes I even wear a shirt!"
Go to Top of Page

Western Horsewoman
Tenderfoot

USA
18 Posts

Posted - 02/25/2006 :  11:40:50 AM  Show Profile  Visit Western Horsewoman's Homepage Send Western Horsewoman a Private Message
Hey Frost,

Seems like you've got it figured out! Just wanted to say hi from one former Nebraskan to another!! Spent the last 10 years in either Wyoming or Montana, but I graduated from UNL--and I'm still a diehard Husker fan, no matter how they're playing!! :)

"This woman's place is in the saddle"
Go to Top of Page
Page: of 2 Previous Topic Topic Next Topic  
Previous Page
 New Topic  Topic Locked
 Printer Friendly
Jump To:
Daily Equine Forum © 2000-2002 Snitz Communications Go To Top Of Page
This page was generated in 0.23 seconds. Snitz Forums 2000